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The #1 On-track Adjustment for Driver Improvement is...?

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#1
William Bonsell

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Ok, so please bear with me here. I am starting my second year of racing. I think of myself as a pretty good former auto crosser and a decently good track driver. I know in both venues I have much room for improvement (well at least a few seconds a lap) which is what I am really looking for in the coming year. So, I am reading books and trying to visualize what it takes for me to go faster. What I would like to do here, since this is the OFF season for most of us, is to take advantage of the tremendous talent on this forum. If we throw out the consumables such as new tires every event, dyno this and dyno that, data analysis, '99's vs 1.6's, pro motors, etc, etc....

What is the number 1 on track adjustment a newer driver can make to improve times.....is it throttle induced oversteer, later apexing, trail braking, and so forth. Going faster can be a information overload for many of us newer guys. I would love to hear from those who have been successful in lowering their times just on the driving techniques. I know I could spend a ton of money going to school after school to learn a lot of this, but again, that is a financial obstacle for many of us. And I hope those who have spent the money to improve their driving, will not be offended because I am throwing this out essentially for free instruction, even if on-line. Maybe you have a specific on track event at a particular corner where something just seemed to click resulting in consistently lower track times. I want to concentrate on really one discipline, which when applied correctly during a 30 minute sprint race, can achieve significant results.

I just thought this would be a nice little topic those really successful drivers would like to pontificate about and that us slower guys would find really valuable. And I am hopeful these adjustments will work on any track so please don't be track specific. And please, those guys who know me, refrain from suggesting that the key to me dropping lap times is loosing weight.....as my grandson would say..."I know dat"!

Happy New Year......

Bill
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#2
Bruce Wilson

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IMHO, no school I've ever been to will teach the good stuff because driving 10/10ths of a cars potential is well -- tricky and kind of dangerous.

Numero Uno is probably max adhesion from entry to exit, which most of the drivers I see are not using. Some, not even close!

I'm trying to be cryptic on purpose. Will give more detail to those who PM or approach me with a beer in the Paddock.

There are some really good parts of books out there on the subject. Just need to put it all together.

-bw
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I have an opinion so I must be right

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#3
Keith Novak

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I have hard data that proves without too much doubt...having a beer with Bruce can indeed be the #1 performance enhancing adjustment. Everything else is just details.
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#4
dmathias

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#5
William Bonsell

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IMHO, no school I've ever been to will teach the good stuff because driving 10/10ths of a cars potential is well -- tricky and kind of dangerous.

Numero Uno is probably max adhesion from entry to exit, which most of the drivers I see are not using. Some, not even close!

I'm trying to be cryptic on purpose. Will give more detail to those who PM or approach me with a beer in the Paddock.

There are some really good parts of books out there on the subject. Just need to put it all together.

-bw

So what does a 6-pack get me Bruce? I'll try and pm u if I can....would like further elaboration on "maximum adhesion"
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#6
davecarama

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Interesting question... I have been instructing HPDE for the past 12 years and although I do up to 20 events a season, I think that without instruction, you are stuck.

And I am not talking the right hand passenger seat instructor (although that CAN help a little). I'd say a good data acquisition system and someone to translate the data into english and give you input on how you can improve (and maybe set "control group" laps in your car for you to compare to). That would be the best way to improve, be it car set-up or driving style.

All pro athletes have a coach, I don't see why anyone driving wouldn't think that could be some help. It is even mentioned in the last Grassroots Motorsports mag.

In know that in the Washington DC area there are LOADS of "teams", King Rat, RP Performance, Meathead, Windsor, etc... find one, attach yourself to them, volunteer your time, make friends, and they will give you pointers and make you faster.

Hope that helps!
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#7
Bruce Wilson

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I'm not saying that schools don't help. Coaching is a completely different story. I have a coach and I coach people too (besides running an SCCA School). The work I did to learn how to run with pack is something I encourage everyone to think about and continue thinking about. At our level there is room for lots of improvement even at the top levels. It would be interesting to hear Rampleburg Saini, or Herr discuss how much they've improved their game since moving to pro.

Like Dave says search out someone from one of the top teams and make friends. That is how it's done!

-bw

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#8
Johnny D

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Brake less, gas more.


Be on one, brake/gas, but don't be on nothing coasting.
J~
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We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#9
dstevens

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One technique won't do it but what these guys are saying about coaching will. Laying down a flier under a controlled condition circuit is one thing. Having 20 of you closest pals wanting the same piece of tarmac is another. The line you might take and the techniques you use going into the carousel off the back straight at PIR could vary depending on race conditions. A coach helps you evaluate those sorts of circumstances. Same with other racers in your run group. Don't get frustrated, it's going to take a while to learn. Go out every session you can to get seat time. Set attainable goals and work to beat them. Skip Barber school has a pretty good book on basic race craft, Going Faster.

http://www.amazon.co...g/dp/0837602262

Dave
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#10
William Bonsell

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I certainly have an appreciation for what a coach can do regardless of the particular level a driver is at...but the particular skill sets are what I am trying to get a better handle on. Bruce's comment regarding maximum adhesion makes perfect sense, but what's the best way to achieve that apart from optimal car set up? Having read through Going Faster twice already this off season, the technique I have been neglecting the most IMO is "trail braking". I am not sure I really knew exactly what it was and why it is so important. I may be wrong, but seems this skill, when properly executed, would allow better entry, with better adhesion, allowing earlier throttle application.....essentially fast in and fast out!! I tend to fly down the straightaway, (no coasting allowed), jump the brakes reaching threshold braking, release the brakes, turn in and hang on...and hope I make the apex! A work in progress as you can see....
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#11
James York

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Practice. Seat time is key.

I also find that sim racing keeps my mind sharp and using some of the available internet programs that can link with iRacing you can really see what technique goes into a fast last.

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#12
Bruce Wilson

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I always remember the saying practice doesn't make perfect, but perfect practice makes perfect... meaning practicing it wrong over and over may actually be worse then not practicing at all.

Bill, trail braking is important but I would guess it is not the most important thing you should work on. Jackie Stewart said the last thing he learned how to do right was taking his foot off the brake. He was probably referring to both trail braking and the optimal way to release the brake so you don't upset the balance of the car. But I can guarantee you that Jackie Stewart was a prodigious driver long before he learned how to trail brake correctly.

As you continue your quest for knowledge, you might want to study up on slip angle and how truly good drivers learn to instinctively stay within the very narrow range of optimal slip angle. Hint, optimal slip angle for SM with Toyo tires is quite a bit more than a typical formula car or sports racer.

-bw

I have an opinion so I must be right

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#13
Johnny D

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Bruce, we haven't got you your beer yet but I'm listening. : )
J~
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We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#14
dstevens

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But it's not just one technique, Bill. It's knowing when and where to use them. When you at the limit of adhesion that's pretty much balls to the wall. How you get to the limit of adhesion is determined by a number of things.

Do a lead/follow with Bruce and have him look at your data. When you are braking, getting back on the gas and what the corner speeds are. Reading about race craft is good for groking the basics but for the best results I think you need someone looking at your lines during the race, data and car cam. That will get you developed faster than you having a go of it on your own.

Are you doing your own set up? If you can find someone to put a solid baseline on it and then train so you can replicate that on your own. You're probably going to want to drop a couple/few seconds before you start to work on the car too much. See if someone with more experience will take your car out for a shakedown to make sure nothing is wrong with your basic set up. With a good baseline, some seat time and confidence in the car your times will start to drop.

#15
Bruce Wilson

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Bruce, we haven't got you your beer yet but I'm listening. : )
J~



LOL, I've given you guys all I know. Like keith said everything else is just details. There are books that cover these topics, and don't ask me which ones, because I'll say most of them :)

Okay, I should point out one more thing. Trail braking IS related to maximum adhesion from entry to exit. I was just saying that max adhesion is the ultimate goal and thus most important. Okay now that I've confused everyone, just know it will all make sense once the beer is in the bloodstream :D

-bw

I have an opinion so I must be right

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#16
Johnny D

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Doh... had him talking and I opened my big mouth. <_<

How about what's the biggest thing you wouldn't spend your money/time on or at least until you got better.
J~
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#17
Bruce Wilson

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Doh... had him talking and I opened my big mouth. <_<

How about what's the biggest thing you wouldn't spend your money/time on or at least until you got better.
J~


That's a hard one. I've always believed in having the best equipment and never bought into the wait until you're a better driver idea.

So I say if you're serious about racing SM, get a good alignment first, then data, then get a motor that is within 4hp of the top cars.

I still don't own an enclosed trailer, waiting until I'm a better driver :(

-bw

I have an opinion so I must be right

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#18
davecarama

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I always remember the saying practice doesn't make perfect, but perfect practice makes perfect... meaning practicing it wrong over and over may actually be worse then not practicing at all.


EXACTLY what I wanted to say... but couldn't get the words out.

Both a coach and an HPDE instructor could help with "perfect practice" but you need to listen to what they are saying. I can't tell you how many times I try to dial out bad learnings from a student only to be flat out ignored. Some of those students FEEL like they are going fast, but unfortunately are not going fast at all with their bad form and horrid line.

HPDE instructor for the on track perfect practice when you decide to continue with HPDE. You can adjust specific turns in real time.
Team Coach for racing. Every lap, every turn can be compared to past data. Eventually, you can build your virtual "perfect lap" by compiling turn by turn, and then keep trying to replicate it in your practice sessions and races.

Books can only teach you so much. I can't tell you how many people I have instructed who thought they were heel toe down shifting, but were really screwing up their laps (not to mention putting me in danger).

Simulators can help get acquainted with a track, but nothing beats the actual G forces in breaking, accelerating, turning, and altitude changes on track.

All of these together... well, that is just obsessive compulsive ;)

Dave
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#19
TheFence

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Thousands of people have said it before me - but if you're not scaring the crap out of yourself at least once per lap, every lap, then you're not going fast enough.
[/quote]

Once per lap.. Should be every corner every lap.

Try to keep the car bound up as little as possible, big oversteer is slow and big understeer is slower.

#20
Keith Novak

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Doh... had him talking and I opened my big mouth. <_<

How about what's the biggest thing you wouldn't spend your money/time on or at least until you got better.
J~


I wouldn't spend too much money on motor right off the bat. I'd go with solid and reliable. Breaking down constantly or spending all your money under the hood instead of at registration will both cost you lots of time in the seat and lots of time with friends and family. Chances are, there is lots of time to be shaved off your laps that has nothing whatsoever to do with the motor, tires or setup, if you have a decent motor and setup.

What Bruce said about perfect practice makes perfect is a golden piece of advice. In the short time he was kind enough to spend with me, I learned very quickly that places I thought I was slow, I was fairly solid. Places I thought I was doing great, were COMPLETELY wrong. Not knowing what I was actually doing right and wrong, I tried to fix things the wrong way, and it made things worse. I was gradually getting faster, but more because I got better at holding on to a very angry, nearly out-of-control car.

There was not one thing to fix. There were actually several and they were different in different corners. Having someone knowledgeable observe what I was doing, explaining why that doesn't work, paying attention and heeding that advice allowed the light bulb to come on. Low and behold, I went much faster, with much less drama, and it had nothing to do with a faster motor or better suspension setup. I think I'm nearing the point where I could appreciate faster motor and better setup, but if I had to do it over again, that sure as hell wouldn't be where I focused my time and money right off the bat.
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