187 replies to this topic

[Rob Burgoon]

One thing I think many aren't considering... The Hoosier IS MUCH EASIER to drive on, I mean MUCH EASIER. this will bring fields much tighter together which is a good things. Many mid pack guys can't drive the Toyos near the edge like the faster guys, but the Hoosiers, most anyone will be able to do it. So I think it will bring the fields closer than ever.
Jim

Damn.

[Team Cochran]

Two of the top 3 ITA drivers in the MARRS series are in Miatas (and actually more like at least 5 of the top ten) we all have one set of Hoosier SM6 (that were bought in March) and one set of the new H20 wet tires each.

You have 5 sets of tires? That is just crazy. And I can't believe you even brought up the R888 tires. They have always been an awful tire.
Sell the tires you have to some HPDE people, and buy Hoosiers. You don't need 5 sets of tires anymore, the Hoosiers are great. One set will last you a full season (and more). One set of rains will last you 5 years. Now you can save money and be economical with your race team.

Not good enough? Here are some other ideas:

• Find an ITA Miata, go in halvsies on Hoosier H20 tires
• You can use your Toyo Tires in NASA
• You can use your Toyo Tires in ITA

There are so many options open to you now!

Still not good? How does FREE sound?
NASA Time Trials has the SICKEST tire contingency rewards. 7+ in a class and Hoosier pays out to the top 3 (2 tires to P1, 1 tire to P2, 1 tire to P3) and they do 2 races per weekend! You can win a full set per weekend!!! Hoosier takes care of its drivers.

So do NASA TT, then do NASA SM and/or SCCA SM.

Hope that helps make you feel better about the new decision.

Dave

There used to be a guy named Jim Jones who'd have enjoyed selling you a bunch of coolaid!
BTW here in the Northwest the only NASA I know about sends rockets to Mars and TT is for sissies... So what is MARRS anyway?

[davecarama]

I'm not singling Dave out here because I have seen numerous people say something to this effect. The world is pretty simple, you can be good, fast or cheap, but not all three. I find it pretty unbelievable that the Hoosiers will last longer than the Toyos, be faster than the Toyos and be cheaper than the Toyos. And provide an equivalent contingency program??

I dunno...
Faster, yes. Cheaper? Doubt it, maybe closer to equal. Last longer? Again, you are looking closer to the same, maybe a little longer. Contingency program? I can only speak from experience (I don't like to speculate) They have been great. Look here: http://www.hoosierti...om/NASAawdg.htm

This is speculation since I have not run them, but I doubt they will last longer or be less expensive for competitive drivers as the Hoosiers reportedly drop off after the initial heat cycles (like most race tires...). You might say, "what about the majority of the class?" Perfectly reasonable: if longevity is all you care about, Toyo has a tire that will last most of a season too, it's called a 6/32" shave.

Not going to argue with you. Try them... My experience is that top people in our series are not going through gobs of tires. 2 sets for the season, one set for the championship race.

Finally, I see a lot of people saying "most" regions have open tire rules regionally. It's not that way on the west coast.

Agree... Not here either.

There used to be a guy named Jim Jones who'd have enjoyed selling you a bunch of coolaid!
BTW here in the Northwest the only NASA I know about sends rockets to Mars and TT is for sissies... So what is MARRS anyway?

Said the guy who drives a Miata

MARRS = Mid-Atlantic Road Racing Series. Washington DC Region SCCA.

[dstevens]

So what is MARRS anyway?

[pat slattery]

So, will the top SM with the Money be shaving Hoosiers, or will they race them straight out of the wrappers, or does it make a difference?

[Jim Drago]

So, will the top SM with the Money be shaving Hoosiers, or will they race them straight out of the wrappers, or does it make a difference?

I think you will certainly see shaved Hoosiers at the Runoffs if they prove to be faster. Although it is not "legal" But impossible to prove. I bet you won't see it on a normal weekend though unless you are in the NE division.

Jim

[Jim Boemler]

The only way to keep some folks from shaving would be to make it mandatory.

[Keith Novak]

It was sort of inevitable that at some point the tires would change. The oldest cars almost qualify as vintage. Lots of people complained about the horrible 888s that set several lap records nationwide and here at least didn't change the lap times much once people figured them out. Changing 4 times in 4 years is definately a pain. With the grace period on the Toyos, if you just wanted to race with whatever you had in the garage, you could and it didn't make a huge difference other than maybe at the very pointy end. Not sure how that will work with the switch to purple if they really are a big improvement since people get caught up in the arms race wherever they are in the pack, from the pointy end all the way to the back-markers.

Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge you can't run a SM in ITA anymore. In many regions there was a rule that you could run as long as you were in full SM trim but apparently people were complaining about little chick cars dominating ITA so virtually the entire class moved over to STL where little chick cars once again dominate allowing ITA to become yet another one car class. In STL, the rule is also legal in full SM trim so you can't use the old tires there. Maybe if the Hoosiers are so much better, we won't be able to run STL and it will become the next one car class, or maybe if we can still run STL, we can run in full trim except you can run your old Toyos. I'm not really sure I can figure out how to bring that many sets of wheels to the track.

Not being at the pointy end, I see a couple test days in my future or maybe an enduro to go out and have a good laugh using up my Toyos...then yet another $2k or so for 2 sets of drys and a set of rains. I suspect that if I manage to chew up or square another rain set in a drying session, I'll see how they work shaved down too.

[Alberto]

I'm not singling Dave out here because I have seen numerous people say something to this effect. The world is pretty simple, you can be good, fast or cheap, but not all three. I find it pretty unbelievable that the Hoosiers will last longer than the Toyos, be faster than the Toyos and be cheaper than the Toyos. And provide an equivalent contingency program??

This is speculation since I have not run them, but I doubt they will last longer or be less expensive for competitive drivers as the Hoosiers reportedly drop off after the initial heat cycles (like most race tires...). You might say, "what about the majority of the class?" Perfectly reasonable: if longevity is all you care about, Toyo has a tire that will last most of a season too, it's called a 6/32" shave.

Finally, I see a lot of people saying "most" regions have open tire rules regionally. It's not that way on the west coast.

+1 from me too.

This is my rookie year. Started the year with 6/32 shaves and I can almost finish the year on these tires. If I run 4/32 shaves, I'd only need two sets of tires for the entire season.

I haven't driven on slicks in ages. Last time I did, they certainly did not stay competitive or consistent for as many heat cycles as the RA1. No way in hell.

I don't buy the open tire rules but no further comment from me on that.

[suck fumes]

I know that the Hoosiers will keep decent grip for a while like the toyos, however I also know that if you want to win you will still have to buy a new set every race weekend like the shaved toyos. I haven't driven on the SM Hoosier but I'm assuming they are like other compound Hoosiers I have driven on with BMW's etc. Those lasted about four 25 min sessions before they start to drop off similar to toyo. The only advantage is the Hoosiers are a LOT faster when they are good.

[Keith Andrews]

I had it confirmed yesterday that the Toyo RA1 will remain as NASAs SM spec tire for 2012

Why? Is that it? Toyo's or go home? It sure would be nice if the SCCA and NASA made it easier to race both series. Doubling a tire budget to race both series is a bit much. That stance will definitely differentiate your product.

[HoneyBadger - BrianW]

Why? Is that it? Toyo's or go home? It sure would be nice if the SCCA and NASA made it easier to race both series. Doubling a tire budget to race both series is a bit much. That stance will definitely differentiate your product.

+1 on this.

It is going to cost me about $3400 for another 2 sets of dry Hoosiers and wheels as well as 1 set of Hoosier rains and wheels. It is also not about the initial cost, but making full use out of the tires. Both groups running the same tires makes this much easier. There are probably 15 or 20 racers in Texas that cross over between NASA and SCCA on a regular basis. For most of us, this tire change is going to mean picking one or the other. That is NOT good for the series, and not what I want to see happen.

[Steve D]

Why? Is that it? Toyo's or go home? It sure would be nice if the SCCA and NASA made it easier to race both series. Doubling a tire budget to race both series is a bit much. That stance will definitely differentiate your product.

Keith - I am working with Jim Pantas on something for the Southeast Region. I will be reaching out to the NASA-SE SM participants in the coming days to get your feedback on some ideas we are kicking around.

[tLinder]

+1 on this.

It is going to cost me about $3400 for another 2 sets of dry Hoosiers and wheels as well as 1 set of Hoosier rains and wheels. It is also not about the initial cost, but making full use out of the tires. Both groups running the same tires makes this much easier. There are probably 15 or 20 racers in Texas that cross over between NASA and SCCA on a regular basis. For most of us, this tire change is going to mean picking one or the other. That is NOT good for the series, and not what I want to see happen.

++1 "For most of us, this tire change is going to mean picking SCCA or NASA. That is NOT good for the series"
Sad to say I doubt either org will change their 2012 tire rules and with many divisions running Rationals, I'd predict most SCCA divisions will require Hoosier for Regional. (Kinda of reminds me of CART vs IRL split, that worked out great didn't it?)

And not that I have to worry about contingency $, but those who do... I doubt Toyo will pay you Toyo bucks with Hoosier decals on your car and vice versa.

Don't get me wrong, nothing against Hoosier tires. Based on the response, appears it would save a mid-pack guy like me some $$$ on my tire bill, but it will make it too costly run SCCA and NASA and that is sad.

[Keith Andrews]

Keith - I am working with Jim Pantas on something for the Southeast Region. I will be reaching out to the NASA-SE SM participants in the coming days to get your feedback on some ideas we are kicking around.

Thanks Steve. After I posted this I registered for the Roebling Road event as the second SM registered . See you in a couple weeks.

[dmathias]

I had it confirmed yesterday that the Toyo RA1 will remain as NASAs SM spec tire for 2012

That is unfortunate. If my tire budget forces me to choose between SCCA and NASA I'm afraid that the SCCA wins.

[Steve D]

That is unfortunate. If my tire budget forces me to choose between SCCA and NASA I'm afraid that the SCCA wins.

I'm going to do all I can to make the best of my position. As I understand it, NASA is under contract with Toyo through the end of 2012. I appreciate Toyo's efforts to make the best of a bad situation after the tsunami.

That said, if enough folks are interested we could run a SM-H class (or, if you prefer SMPT for SM Purple Tire). Come race NASA-SM until you use up your Toyo stockpile, then switch to SM-H?

This idea is in its infancy for NASA Southeast, but I felt the need to post something before the interwebs chicken littles spun too far out of control. I think you will find Jim & Julie Pantas very responsive to what their customers want (for example, they will pay for your NASA race license if you have a current SCCA license and want to come race with us).

[wreckerboy]

I was told yesterday that the Toyo remains the tire for SSM in WDCR (you know, the planet MARRS) for 2012 as well. I can't see how that will be a good thing for the region, because the sizable number of drivers who double dip between SM and SSM will now need two sets of tires.

[Motor City Hamilton]

That is unfortunate. If my tire budget forces me to choose between SCCA and NASA I'm afraid that the SCCA wins.

Denny, you know that the Great Lakes Region always sings it's own song. We'll probably remain open tire. Have fun on your Toyos while most of the field is on Hoosiers.

[dmathias]

Keith, I believe you are misunderstanding me. The next set of tires I buy will be Hoosiers.