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#1
AW33COM

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I repacked my front hubs and something funny is happening right now. My front race falls out and I have no idea why. The grease I used is CV2. Everything is put back together the way it should be. Is this normal? The hubs were purchased at Rock Auto, so they did not come from Mazda. With the old grease they are tight, but with the new one i can pull the front and back race with my finger.

Also, do you guys repack the rears? If not, what is the reason to repack fronts? If they are so bad, we would know of rears breaking every few races. Is that the case?

I have a feeling the falling out race is fine. Sort of makes sense. Now, I decided not to repack hubs ever again. Makes no sense at all. I pay $20-$30 per new hub. If they last 2 races I win. Repacking them after each session (some of the drivers do that) is an overkill for me.

#2
Muda

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When you blow out one of those aftermarket, stock grease hubs in the middle of the weekend, find me and I will sell you one of my personally packed hubs.
Pack the hub and feel the luv.
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#3
AW33COM

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^ I would agree with you, but I read every thread on hub repacking on this forum and there people talk about repacking after each session. I need a bear after each session, not repacked hubs.

Anyway, I repacked mine and I will not touch them until failure. Let's see how long it takes.

#4
Tom Hampton

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Schabi-

I'm guessing you really want a BEER, rather than a Bear.

Back on topic: Do you have Dave Wheeler's book? If not, you should get it before you go any further racing a Miata in any class. He has a very rational perspective on hub repacking, as well as all the other scheduled maintenance activities. From memory, hubs should be repacked every 4 weekends, and after any wet day/weekend.

Perhaps you've read every thread on MR.com regarding hub repacking. It hasn't come up much over here. But, I can't conceive how you could come to the above conclusion if you have read every post on SM.com, too. I've read everything on both sites. I just can't possibly see how you would think that your idea has merit based on those threads from sm.com. I recall there being threads with actual failure rates of OEM vs. autozone/etc hubs at race-pace.

All the veterans with multiple years of experience (Like Muda) that I know of won't even touch a white-box hub---even if it is repacked after every weekend---let alone use it straight out of the box without putting in a good lube (CV2, etc). No one here will agree with the idea of running a white-box hub with stock grease at 100+ MPH then pulling 1.5g's in turn1. Many people even question the quality of new Mazda hubs (depth of heat treating of the races) vs. the old hubs.

What you describe regarding your repacked hub doesn't sound right to me. Did you use one of the repacking guides (like the one I posted in the downloads section)? Please take pix of your hub for us to see.

I just don't think its prudent to take a chance with the parts that keep the wheels on the car. Some of those turns have walls on the outside of them, and this could be a very costly lesson. If Muda (or Keith N, James York, Dave W, Mike C, Drago, Bruce W, Denny, Danny, and on-and-on-and-on) tells you you are being foolish, you are strongly advised to reconsider. NOTE: I didn't include myself. They aren't making it up, or just being a scare-monger.

-tch

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#5
dmathias

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You could drive a '71 Chevy Nova to the Moon and back and not have to repack the hubs. Mazda front hubs are CRAP!

I vote that we are allowed to upgrade to roller bearings.

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#6
Muda

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I vote that we are allowed to upgrade to roller bearings.


Might as well as when's the last time you saw a hub get pulled in tech?

What's a bear, anyway? Never had one, at least I don't think so. :rolleyes:
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#7
AW33COM

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What you describe regarding your repacked hub doesn't sound right to me. Did you use one of the repacking guides (like the one I posted in the downloads section)? Please take pix of your hub for us to see.


I used your doc for doing so (btw my 5 year old son could do this using such a good doc), but there is nothing difficult. You can not put it back incorrectly. Races from one hub are loose comparing to the other one. Should be fine.

So what happens in a CV2 repacked hub after 4 weekends?

Sorry about the bear, meant beer. We shot and brought a 2011 record bear in Alaska few days ago, maybe that's why the typo.

#8
Todd Green

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repacking after each session.


Seems a bit extreme. I got 33 hours out of my repacked hub (new style from MazdaSpeed) that I did with Swepco 101 grease. That included two rain races and two 3-hour enduros. The other one I did at the same time is still going strong with another 8+ hours on it. Rather than go through the trouble of doing them again, I just ordered already packed hubs from Drago (Redline grease) for the same price as the Mazda unpacked hubs. Seemed like a no-brainer assuming they last as long. It'll be interesting to see how the Redline compares to the Swepco. Though I got the older style hubs, so it might not be apples to apples.

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#9
Tom Hampton

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I used your doc for doing so (btw my 5 year old son could do this using such a good doc), but there is nothing difficult. You can not put it back incorrectly. Races from one hub are loose comparing to the other one. Should be fine.

So what happens in a CV2 repacked hub after 4 weekends?

Sorry about the bear, meant beer. We shot and brought a 2011 record bear in Alaska few days ago, maybe that's why the typo.


Glad you found it useful. I would make sure the race is fully seated. I've found that sometimes they can be "resistant" to pushing "over-the-hump". if one were not quite seated all the way, I could see that being why it would be "tight".

After 4 weekends "nothing" should happen. The point is to change them often enough so that "nothing" continues to happen. Grease gets hot, breaks down, and make leak out around the seals (esp if the seals are old). Over time, as these things occur, the hub will get hotter and hotter under load, until eventually something will fail (the hub face will lose temper, or a ball may crush). In addition, in wet or humid conditions, condensation can form in air pockets inside the hub. Then, water can then work into the grease or up against a steel surface forming rust spots, and eventually a pitting.

In the end, the wheel may lockup or begin to vibrate badly resulting in a very difficult to control racecar. I suppose it is possible for the wheel to fall off, but doubtful---however, its probably happened to someone.

The rear hubs are a totally different design from the Front with true, press-in bearings. Thus, not anywhere near as prone to failure. The bearings can be pressed out of the hub and replaced, which is recommended as an annual maintenance item (IIRC).

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#10
Jim Boemler

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I vote that we are allowed to upgrade to roller bearings.

Is that even possible? I suspect we'd all vote for it if so.

#11
James York

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Schabi,

If I remember correctly you did or were going to change all the bushings in the car since you thought it would help in your suspension revamp. If you are willing to spend that sort of money, as a complete set of bushings are not cheap from Mazdaspeed, which most people guided you not to do, I would never skimp on a bearing.

I have had fronts and rears go bad and check for free play often. I only use Mazdaspeed after they have been gone through by either Drago or Ed.

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#12
Bench Racer

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Schabi-

The reason the front hubs require such tender care is that the outer races are machined into the hub, then case hardened. It's a shit design never intended to have the lateral loads that racing induces. The rear hubs have pressed in outer races which is more normal.

Jim, I dought there is enough meat in the front hub to machine & press in an outer race.
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#13
Jim Boemler

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Jim, I dought there is enough meat in the front hub to machine & press in an outer race.


Not surprised. I suppose someone might be able to make a hub that took some standard tapered bearings -- might not be terribly expensive. If such a part were to be made available, it would be interesting to see if it could be made legal.

#14
Tom Hampton

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Not surprised. I suppose someone might be able to make a hub that took some standard tapered bearings -- might not be terribly expensive. If such a part were to be made available, it would be interesting to see if it could be made legal.


Just make it "undetectable", and get everyone to migrate to it quietly. Maybe paint the ball bearings onto the inside face of the roller-bearing to fool anyone crazy enough to pull the hub in the tech-shed.

Then getting it made legal is easy.

:P

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#15
Bench Racer

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Just make it "undetectable", and get everyone to migrate to it quietly. Maybe paint the ball bearings onto the inside face of the roller-bearing to fool anyone crazy enough to pull the hub in the tech-shed.

Then getting it made legal is easy.

:P


SO, your saying use the 99 rules change process. :unsure: :rolleyes: :lol:
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#16
Tom Hampton

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SO, your saying use the 99 rules change process. :unsure: :rolleyes: :lol:



I made no reference to any specific car year. Posted Image The fact that I own a 1.6L could merely be a coincidence. Who's to say? ::halo::

I'm sure there are other rules besides AFPR, and wobbly timing gears that came into being following the above process.

::stiring pot:: cuz I'm feeling frisky.

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#17
steveracer

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Hmmm, I repack mine over the Christmas holiday and the only hub failures I've had were the ones I rammed into the wall at MSRH.

Must be clean living and good Karma!

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#18
Greg Kimble

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Schabi,

What did you do with the oem hubs that were on the car? I would use those before using a cheap aftermarket parts. In my opinion you should deal with those who support our class, you should know who they are by now. I think your thoughts of running them till they fail is really flawed. I dont want to be around you when they fail on the track. We go to the track to race, not to deal with mechanical issues. Plan on spending a fair amount of time and effort between races doing maintenance. These cars in stock form were not intended to be driven in this manner. Remember to finish first, first you must finish.

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#19
Jim Boemler

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The nature of bearing failure seems to be they get noisy and/or loose, and some time later they fail. If you check them and pay attention to your ears, you should be able to replace them before failure quite reliably. The whole idea of doing "something" to them every few sessions seems like serious overkill to me. BTW, my factory hubs normally last several years, without being touched.

We have a contingent that loves to think our cars are related to F1. They change all their lubricants every weekend, and perform all manner of other incantations. While things certainly do wear out, the reality is that we drive remarkably reliable little cars, and for the most part they just keep running. I say this from the standpoint of one of the few guys who actually depends on the race car to get him home every weekend. It always does.

#20
dstevens

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What's a bear, anyway? Never had one, at least I don't think so. :rolleyes:


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