33 replies to this topic

[dmathias]

Sunday was a tragic day, to be certain.

No racing is safe - do we abolish all motorsports?

[Rob Burgoon]

NASCAR these days is pretty safe considering how quick they are going on an oval and how often they wreck.

[Joe Benoit]

RIP Dan. Met him at the St. Pete GP. Very nice guy. Great driver. Very sad news.

[Danny Steyn]

NASCAR these days is pretty safe considering how quick they are going on an oval and how often they wreck.

But it wasnt very long ago that when the new COT was launched with the rear wing (as opposed to the rear spoiler), the minute the cars got turned around they got airborne, and we saw several NASCAR's in the air and who will forget Carl Edwards flight into the catch fence. The rear wing was hastily replaced with the rear spoiler and now going backwards at 200mph doesnt send the cars into the fence.

IMO thats one of the many problems with Indy car racing and Indy car design. Apparently the new 2012 Indy car has some ability to negate the induced ramping effect (car over the rear of the car when hitting the rear wheels of the car in front). That would have helped for Power and Wheldons flights, but I am not sure of how they stop the tendency to get airborne when going backwards. Maybe its a movable rear wing that automatically opens up when the pressure is on the wrong side of he wing (something like F1's DRS wing, but automatic)

But IMO the biggest issue, as Franchitti stated, is there is no way to differentiate yourself at a track like Vegas. You are FLAT the entire oval and you cannot get away from the pack, so at lap 13 you still have the entire field bunched running four wide at 200+MPH, all getting a little frustrated. Just a matter of time.

[Adam Figarsky]

was watching the race, just sat there after the incident in silence ...godspeed Dan!

[dstevens]

But it wasnt very long ago that when the new COT was launched with the rear wing (as opposed to the rear spoiler), the minute the cars got turned around they got airborne, and we saw several NASCAR's in the air and who will forget Carl Edwards flight into the catch fence. The rear wing was hastily replaced with the rear spoiler and now going backwards at 200mph doesnt send the cars into the fence.

The wing didn't have the lift capability to launch the car. The wing was replaced due to vision issues and the desire to have them look more like the old car. The cars with the spoilers still get launched from time to time and cars launched well before the introduction of the wing. They launch because the car gets sideways and air under the car works as a lift. Just like on a plane. One way NASCAR handles it is using a smaller plate so if the car pitches sideways there is not enough speed to launch. That is what happened after Keslowski and Edwards rode the fence. They slowed the cars down. The wing had nothing to do with it.

[Colin MacLean]

It was a terrible day and the 5 lap tribute was so sad as to be almost unwatchable. The real problem is cramming 34 cars into a 1.5 mile oval where the drivers drive foot to the floor one inch from each other and DO NOT LIFT ever for any reason. Pure madness. IRL as a series are getting desperate and are playing fast and loose with the lives of their drivers. They're putting the cars on tracks where they don't belong and throwing in inexperienced drivers who have no business in the IRL to begin with.

Just horrible.

[Lee Tilton]

Either these cars need to be slowed down or they need to stop racing ovals. Otherwise, we can expect another fatality in the next few years.

Although speed was a factor in this accident, I think we are going to find that the impact with the catch fence was the issue. Even at 100 mph, if you make wheel contact and get launched into a mesh catch fence head first, the result is not going to be good. I was watching when Rich Vogler was killed in an ESPN Thunder race in 1990. He was "de-helmeted" from contact with the catch fence. If you look closely at one of the still photos of Wheldon after the contact with the fence, you can see his head with what appears to be no helmet.

Still such a sad event. I keep thinking about his poor wife and kids.

[Danny Steyn]

The wing didn't have the lift capability to launch the car. The wing was replaced due to vision issues and the desire to have them look more like the old car. The cars with the spoilers still get launched from time to time and cars launched well before the introduction of the wing. They launch because the car gets sideways and air under the car works as a lift. Just like on a plane. One way NASCAR handles it is using a smaller plate so if the car pitches sideways there is not enough speed to launch. That is what happened after Keslowski and Edwards rode the fence. They slowed the cars down. The wing had nothing to do with it.

Denny - you may be right - but this excerpt taken from the current Wikipedia page on the COT (not that being on W makes it correct)

It has been claimed that the bulky rear wing that was affixed to the rear of the car from 2007 to early 2010 increased to the severity of many on-track incidents by sending the car airborne. On the final lap of the 2009 Aaron's 499 at Talladega, Carl Edwards swerved into the path of Brad Keselowski; Keselowski blasted Edwards into the air and Edwards was hit in mid-air by Ryan Newman and flipped into the tri-oval fencing, destroying most of the car. Edwards was uninjured. The crash was compared to the accident involving Bobby Allison in 1987 where his car became airborne and hit the catchfence in a similar location. Allison's crash (coming at speeds 20 MPH faster than Edwards' crash) ripped out some 100 feet of catchfence, while Edwards' crash only bent the support poles. Seven spectators were injured in Edwards' accident from debris.^[22] The aftermath of the accident spawned questions about the aerodynamic features of the CoT, the nature of pack racing with restrictor plates, and the safety features of Talladega Superspeedway. Video replay showed that despite deploying, the car's roof flaps did nothing to stop the car from flipping – a common failing of the devices dating to their very first month in use – and the second hit from Newman flipped the car higher.^[23] In the 2009 AMP Energy 500 at Talladega, Ryan Newman's car was spun backwards at high speed, and then flipped backwards ending up on its roof. At the 2010 Kobalt Tools 500 at Atlanta – the second to last race to use the rear wing – Carl Edward's car swerved into the path of Brad Keselowski, causing the car to turn around backwards, and once again flip over despite the roof flaps being deployed.

These three accidents - as well as the general consensus that the wing made the car look like it was not even a stock car - were factors in NASCAR's eventual decision, in February 2010, to replace the wing with a more traditional rear spoiler starting at Martinsville in late March. Denny Hamlin won the first race with the new/old spoiler, beating out Jeff Gordon and Matt Kenseth.

[Rob Burgoon]

Sunday was a tragic day, to be certain. No racing is safe - do we abolish all motorsports?

I'm starting a new SM class, 300whp v8s, no tops, no helmets, and no seat belts. This class will separate the men from the boys. Who's in?

Gotta draw the line somewhere.

[dstevens]

NASCAR did some tunnel testing and they couldn't get the cars to flip using the wing. It's widely known in NASCAR circles that the wing doesn't lead to getting airborne. If that were the case we wouldn't have had cars flip before the wing, or after.

[Ernie Jr.]

Very sad they really do need to slow these cars down, they go too fast. Its dangorous and getting out of hand. RIP Dan you will be missed by many, sad to see you go.

[Blake Thompson]

Anyone get to hear the interview with Paul Tracey on The Fan? He said he had his steering wheel broke off in his hand and a tiremark on his helmet :-x

[Elliott Skeer]

I'd be VERY interested to see a Big Honking Fin on an indycar. Its already proven to work thanks to McNish and Rockenfeller, wonder how that would work on an oval.