19 replies to this topic

[red986s]

Is it worth throwing a ton of money at a 1.6 SM to convert it to ITA? Or would my money be better spent on a 1.8? The idea is to eventually move to STL then maybe, FP.

[trey]

You might check with Jesse Prather for an expert opinion .... He had a 1.6 ITA Miata listed for sale on IT forum awhile back.

I'm guessing a 1.6 might be at a disadvantage , but I'm also guessing that in the right hands a 1.6 can be competitive.

[wreckerboy]

Also look around for Bowie Gray ("Racer Bowie")in the Atlanta area, who also has a fast 1.6. The car's been in mothballs for the last few years, but the current incarnation of Punkin' is a full on 10/10ths ITA build.

[red986s]

Funny you should mention Prather. I'm headed down to his shop in the coming weeks. I have no doubt he'll squeeze all the performance he can out my car. No plans to do it, but just curious if a .020 overbore on a 1.6 is really worth it.

[Colin MacLean]

A ton of money?? I converted my SM to ITA to SAVE money Running with oversize pistons is a big benefit for a 1.6. Basically I spent $1000 to rebuild my motor with 20 over pistons (same price as stock) Had the motor balanced and blueprinted, re-used everything (valves, springs) shaved the head/block to allowable compression. So a very, very basic build a DIY special. My peak dyno numbers matched an off the shelf 1.8 SM pro motor ($7000) from a reputable builder on here. So you get SM motor performance for 1/7 of the price. Car is lighter, can run aero and of course now you can throw a megasquirt on them and make big gains. Is a 1.6 capable of winning the ARRC (#1 ITA race)? That's questionable. A 1.6 Miata in ITA has a tough time maximizing their performance due to being killed on the straights and held up in the turns. If there were two full-on 1.6 builds on the track at the same time and worked together they could win. A cheap build like mine (my car sold for $8500) runs SM lap record lap times. My car had SM suspension only power upgrades and Hoosiers.

Bottom line if I was starting with a clean slate I would not choose a 1.6 Miata for ITA if you are looking to build a competitive platform that wins races everwhere. My car was huge fun to drive though.

[red986s]

Thanks Colin, appreciate your comments. I'm like-minded, I realize the 1.6 will never be a class overdog and that's ok. Just want to build a great car. Something that will be a blast to drive and regionally competitive. Sounds like you did it and on the cheap, that's awsome!

[jimalley]

Is it worth throwing a ton of money at a 1.6 SM to convert it to ITA? Or would my money be better spent on a 1.8? The idea is to eventually move to STL then maybe, FP.

I have run two different fully built 1.6's and can report that in my opinion it is not worth the cost to try and compete with the better cars in ITA. Although I am not an experiened driver with the skills to run up front the 1.6 is at a bid disadvantage. Both engines fully built to ITA maximum allowances maxed out at 114-115 HP on the dyno.

I converted to a fully built 1.8 and the difference was significant. If you are going to spend the money to build a fully prepared ITA miata, my rtecomendation is to build a 1.8.

[Marc Cefalo]

I have run two different fully built 1.6's and can report that in my opinion it is not worth the cost to try and compete with the better cars in ITA. Although I am not an experiened driver with the skills to run up front the 1.6 is at a bid disadvantage. Both engines fully built to ITA maximum allowances maxed out at 114-115 HP on the dyno.

I converted to a fully built 1.8 and the difference was significant. If you are going to spend the money to build a fully prepared ITA miata, my rtecomendation is to build a 1.8.

Agreed, my 1996 car would walk all over the 1.6 liter cars, especially on the straights. BUILD A 1.8.

brian price, andy bettencourt, ed york and my self all had/have 1.8 liter cars and the wins /top finished to prove it.

[red986s]

Thanks fellas for the advice. Guess I'll do a few small things and squeeze out a few more hp, get some more seat time this season and then start looking at STL or Prod.

[Andy Bettencourt]

So I would agree that the 1.8 is probably better for ITA. However, start with a 1.8. Maybe trade your 1.6 SM for a 1.8 SM and then build from there.

Key thing to note: If you are looking at FP as an end-game, the 1.6 is the only motor you can go with there. The 1.8 is an EP car.

[red986s]

Key thing to note: If you are looking at FP as an end-game, the 1.6 is the only motor you can go with there. The 1.8 is an EP car.

I'm right with ya Andy. I'd love to do a 1.8 but you hit it on the head. That and I have three 1.6 engines sitting in my garage!

[ita08]

Check with Mike Von Steenburg at ISC Racing in Winter Haven, FL. He builds winning 1.6 ITA cars driving in the 1:22 second per lap arena at Roebling Road.

[red986s]

Check with Mike Von Steenburg at ISC Racing in Winter Haven, FL. He builds winning 1.6 ITA cars driving in the 1:22 second per lap arena at Roebling Road.

I've been eye-balling their upgraded control arms for a while now.

[Alex Ratcliffe]

Late to the conversation. The 1.6 ITA can beat the 1.8s (I just did it at MARRS5) however its very track specific and you have to have a fully prepared car (0.040 over, megasquirt, good shocks, short diff, aero etc etc).

I think the ligther weight helps tremendously, but its no cake walk for sure. Now if Rowdy price shows up for he double I think we will be fighting for 3rd.

hoepfully we can run this car at the ARRC this year.

Alex.

[Brian Laughlin]

A 1.6 miata can be fast in ITA. I've set 5 ITA track records here in the mid-west, taking 3 away from Bob Stretches 240sx he used to run. Don't get me wrong I've ITA'd the max out of the car, and it shows. Last year at the ARRC I finished 3nd in the championship race. To Moser and Price, as you all know Price was booted to last in class at impound, so on paper and in the books my team and I finished 2nd. It can be done(a 1.6 winning the thing). If I had a taller rear end ratio, I'm pretty sure I could have been right there with Price and Mosier, maybe that's a little to optimistic. They were turning 2 seconds a lap faster than "us" the 3-5 place guys. It was a little nuts, I have only met Price once(have nothing bad to say about the guy), and Moser who were running hondas, we'll the only time I talked to him and his dad(who was running the championship race too). The conversation went like this "(dad Mosier)Do you think you could get out of the way at the start so I can file in behind joe". I don't like confrentation, so I told him "if you get a better start than me you can have it". The whole time I was thinking in my head, I just qualified 3rd for the ARRC championship race, WHY THE HELL WOULD I GET OUT OF SOMEONE'S WAY ON THE START?.. I think there's something else going on with the cars that finished 1-2. I'm not one to judge, just my opinion.

To answer the question. Yes a 1.6 can be very competitive. the lighter weight really shows in the cornering, exp the braking zones. hope that helps out some. In 2009 we won the PRO-I.T and Enduro at the ARRC in my 1.6.

[Brian Laughlin]

go to my gallery section at the bottom there is a great picture Clark McGuennis took at the start of the ITA ARRC Championship race last year. The picture of Jimmie Johnson and I that's a different story, great expirence

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[brian price]

Late to the conversation. The 1.6 ITA can beat the 1.8s (I just did it at MARRS5) however its very track specific and you have to have a fully prepared car (0.040 over, megasquirt, good shocks, short diff, aero etc etc).

I think the ligther weight helps tremendously, but its no cake walk for sure. Now if Rowdy price shows up for he double I think we will be fighting for 3rd.

hoepfully we can run this car at the ARRC this year.

Alex.

Could happen...... I do need some practice for the ARRC.....

[brian price]

go to my gallery section at the bottom there is a great picture Clark McGuennis took at the start of the ITA ARRC Championship race last year. The picture of Jimmie Johnson and I that's a different story, great expirence

Nice pic & what a fun race. thanks for sharing..

[red986s]

Forgot about this thread. Thanks for all the replies! I've been slowly improving my little 1.6. I think on the more technical tracks the 1.6L is the better car. Just takes time and money for development. My lap times are lower and I've been finishing in the top 4 this season (1st season couldn't get better than 7th). Just need that last piece to finish the puzzle, a full blown ITA motor.

[Glenn]

Forgot about this thread. Thanks for all the replies! I've been slowly improving my little 1.6. I think on the more technical tracks the 1.6L is the better car. Just takes time and money for development. My lap times are lower and I've been finishing in the top 4 this season (1st season couldn't get better than 7th). Just need that last piece to finish the puzzle, a full blown ITA motor.

Im building an STL car, and I believe the 1.6 weight advantage could be worth seriously looking at, IF I can get close to the 1.6 minimum weight. At 2398# a 1.8 will be a pig in the corners and will be tough on tires, IMHO.