120 replies to this topic

[Keith Andrews]

But but but... you didn't need to leave him any room. And Keith didn't try to get out of the way. *sigh*

Rob that's why I posted this. It looks in the video like I didn't "try to get out of the way" but at the time I was squeezing to the edge of the track and my right front was off track. In hindsight I had pit road coming up and could have easily used that surface. At the time I was confident we were going to go easily through the turn side by side. We are going around 80/90mph in this turn I think. I sent Nash off track at that speed, I didn't do enough and I learned from that. You need to go back to Jim's comment though. Is it better to be right or able to drive your car the entire race?

Rob,

I felt your frustration and we had those discussions that day. Its always easier to be calm and level headed six months later. From what I learned that day, Shut the door soon and agressively after exiting to let the following car know your intentions. Im sure Keith would agree; "be ready for anything".

Absolutely!

[MPR22]

Rob that's why I posted this. It looks in the video like I didn't "try to get out of the way" but at the time I was squeezing to the edge of the track and my right front was off track. In hindsight I had pit road coming up and could have easily used that surface. At the time I was confident we were going to go easily through the turn side by side. We are going around 80/90mph in this turn I think. I sent Nash off track at that speed, I didn't do enough and I learned from that. You need to go back to Jim's comment though. Is it better to be right or able to drive your car the entire race?





Absolutely!

And this is precisely why I started this post.

At high speeds and passing in corners becomes impossible in NASA with our little 100hp cars. In the video you had a good run on Nash, he left the door open, and you started to make the pass. This is racing, in a spec class where the passes should take a long time unless the guy makes a huge mistake. If the lead car wants to close the door in NASA then he has the right too. HOWEVER, He has the responsibility to drive safely. I have talked to several race directors and none of them believe the lead car should create contact because the passing car did not have the correct overlap. This is all happening too fast, for split second decisions by the passing car to pull out once he has initated a pass in this type of turn. As Keith pointed out, in hind sight he might have been able to take the pit lane as a bail out, WHAT thats just nuts, pit lanes are not bail outs, they have walls and people walking around.

If NASA does not want people to pass in turns then they should just call it HPDE. I plunk my money down to go racing, not to see if i can get around some blocking A hole if I mess up my qualifying.

That being said, we just attened the first event of the year in NASA Texas, 30 car SM field with an aditional 8 PTC, PTD,PTF thrown in to make sure we had to pass much slower cars. Great hard nosed racing, race director was all over it, made sure any and all incidents involving significant contact were investigated and resolved. From start to finish a really well run weekend. Thank you Dave Balingit, Clifton Winkleman and Trevor McAllion what a great opening weekend.

[FTodaro]

Have you ever seen a flock of little birds fly in a big group, the dodge and weave with precsion some how not hitting each other. That is what I have come to learn about racing in tight quarters. Forget where the track goes, you need to stay off your competitor and antisipate the worst. Out of my conflict early last season i learned a few valuable lessions. Know your competitor and how much they will give an take. if your trying to make a move on the inside of someone, you have to antisipate they are going to come to the apex, if they don't you can go back to the gas sooner if they do you go to the brake longer and be prepaired to go to the grass.

At the end of the day, i do what i have to to avoid the contact, event when i think i have the right to be there. That is what I took away from my experience, is even when I feel I have the right to a line I will give it up if contact is enevitable. If the line is taken away I will go to where i have to go to avoid the contact. I antispate the worst and take advantage of the best.

My change in thinking was, before this If I felt I had the line I counted on my competitor to yeild to my line. I don't anymore, yes most of the time people i knwo and trust are not going to go there, but people i do not know or out of class drivers i just can't trust.

Last year by leaning to to just do what it takes to avoid contact I ended up with some my the best results. As many have said, you can win or place if you don't finish.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

From start to finish a really well run weekend. Thank you Dave Balingit, Clifton Winkleman and Trevor McAllion what a great opening weekend.

I don't know the other two but I had some dealings with Clifton at the Nasa nationals, and the guy is 200% fair and understands racing. He makes good decisions, and looks at things fairly. IMO we need some more guys like him that don't get caught up in the moment when making a decision that effects our races. The way I understand it that TX region, is the closest to having a SM only run group that there is in any NASA region. In my home region there has historicly been, HC, SE30, thunder roaders, Ledgends, PTC, PTD, PTE, PTF, and SM all running in the Lightning group. That has only recently changed...talk about a group of cars all traveling different speeds, with a huge disparity of talent. I have raced with another region that is very similar to my own, IMO it is dangerous as hell, having all those different groups is crazy I have witnessed cars that are racing againt only themselves, just pile in to a turn and wreck several cars, red flag races etc. etc.

I am sure every once in a while the suspensions and DQ's work... when there are drivers with some common sense.

IMO, if you cant watch your mirrors and be situationaly aware of where your competitors are in a class like SM, you really shouldnt be racing. The HPDE program teaches you from the begining that you have to be aware of where you are and where others are, as well as anticipate what might happen. I have personaly raced against some of those who have posted on this thread, and my coments are in now way aimed at any of them.

[HoneyBadger - BrianW]

The way I understand it that TX region, is the closest to having a SM only run group that there is in any NASA region.

The only reason we didn't have an SM only run group was because as a group... we are lazy and didn't sign up in large numbers until very late. Note: I am including myself in that statement. Had we signed up earlier we would have been given our own run group. We had 35 SM cars this past weekend. NASA runs good events in our region, the competitors are respectful of racing room regardless of the "rules" with only a very few exceptions.

[john mueller]

And this is precisely why I started this post.

I guess the saving grace is with as close as we run, and as many passes we make, and as much fun as we have is this type of contact only comes up a few times a year. SM, as a group really does have the best pilots in the paddock and if hard pressed the other class' divers would agree. We have large fields and yeah we bump & bang, but not may times do I see flatbed'ing of totaled cars... Truly, lots of heads-up driving while inside the blender.

Great hard nosed racing, race director was all over it, made sure any and all incidents involving significant contact were investigated and resolved. From start to finish a really well run weekend. Thank you Dave Balingit, Clifton Winkleman and Trevor McAllion what a great opening weekend.

Glad to hear !!!

[Jim Boemler]

At the end of the day, i do what i have to to avoid the contact, event when i think i have the right to be there. That is what I took away from my experience, is even when I feel I have the right to a line I will give it up if contact is enevitable. If the line is taken away I will go to where i have to go to avoid the contact. I antispate the worst and take advantage of the best.

Great attitude, Frank. Some guys seem to think their next 50-million-dollar endorsement contract rides on every corner -- people like you are a lot more fun to race with.

[FTodaro]

Great attitude, Frank. Some guys seem to think their next 50-million-dollar endorsement contract rides on every corner -- people like you are a lot more fun to race with.

I saved alot of money on my repair bill too.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Great attitude, Frank. Some guys seem to think their next 50-million-dollar endorsement contract rides on every corner -- people like you are a lot more fun to race with.

You only think Frank is so fun to race with because you don't actually have to!

He doesn't have contact because he is fast not because he is so careful!!!!!! Don't let his calm forum demeanor fool you!

[Jim Boemler]

You only think Frank is so fun to race with because you don't actually have to!

He doesn't have contact because he is fast not because he is so careful!!!!!! Don't let his calm forum demeanor fool you!

Yeah, we've got a couple like that up here too.

[FTodaro]

Jim you should know better than to listen to Kyle. He finishes ahead of me. I have had more friendly contact with Kyle than anyone else last year, generally when he misses a shift on the start, there is no avoiding contact at that point.

[john mueller]

Jim you should know better than to listen to Kyle. He finishes ahead of me. I have had more friendly contact with Kyle than anyone else last year, generally when he misses a shift on the start, there is no avoiding contact at that point.

Hell, at that point he deserves it !!!

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Hell, at that point he deserves it !!!

Frank was just being kind enough to give me a bump start My neck still hurts though...

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Jim you should know better than to listen to Kyle. He finishes ahead of me. I have had more friendly contact with Kyle than anyone else last year, generally when he misses a shift on the start, there is no avoiding contact at that point.

It's a good thing you didn't try to pass me I would have put you in the grass LOLOLOLOLOL! Cant wait to see what you got this year with a Torsen rather than an Open diff. Fast may not be the right word anymore

[pat slattery]

I have a hard time seeing how Mr. Andrews hit Mr. Nash? I watched his hands and position on the track, and they never once moved toward Mr. Nash. It appears to me that Nash chopped mr. Andrews. WTF

[Rob Burgoon]

I have a hard time seeing how Mr. Andrews hit Mr. Nash? I watched his hands and position on the track, and they never once moved toward Mr. Nash. It appears to me that Nash chopped mr. Andrews. WTF

Pat, it's NASA. If you're going about your business turning in for a corner and someone is at your quarter panel, it's not a chop.

[MPR22]

Pat,
Rob is a bit confused. It is a CHOP, but it is LEGAL.

Rob clearly likes to hold off his competitors by turning down on them as the come along side him. As long as he times it right every time he is not blocking. He is defending.

[naparsei]

Does anyone drive differently (in terms of passing) at an SCCA event vs. a NASA event?

[john mueller]

Does anyone drive differently (in terms of passing) at an SCCA event vs. a NASA event?

In SoCal there is less unintened contact in NASA, or so I'm told...

[trimless]

Is there ever any contact that is intentional? Well, except for the NASA tech shed at the 2008 Mid-O nationals.