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NB Comparison, Discussion and Future

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#1
Danimal

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NBs have proven to be at the front of the pack and the rules have done a good job to rain in the equality with the RPs and weight. Although, the 99-00 have proven to perform they have also received their reward penalties. Where are we at with the 01+ cars? On paper they make more power, have a stiffer chassis and have the VVT. What are the downsides to the VVT and the 01+? Is it lack of car count and tuning development or are there serious road blocks?

#2
Jim Drago

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I think this has been discussed several times before, maybe on old site. I have tried a few, put in a fair amount of time...

The first round of me trying resulting in realizing with equal plates to the 99/00, it would never compete with it. I advised SMAC to raise plate 2mm ( which wasn't enough but closer) and sold car as I did not want to compete with a car that I played a major part in adding plate too and still was not competitive with top 99/00 cars.

FF to last year, I tried another.. It was a very good car, but sold it before I ever raced it. I think it was one of the best 01+ cars, still not as good as our good 99's

I have one under construction now, I think it will be a very good car, I may race at Mid Ohio in NASA champs, but at the end of the day, i feel pretty confident i will be racing a 99 again at Road America in Sept.

On paper, the 01+ looks like a clear winner.. reality, not so much. The 01+ plus car is far better than the 99/00 from 0-5000 rpm, from 5,000-6000 they are similar, from 6000 on, the 99/00 destroys the 01+. The VVT is tuned for street driving and car does feel great on the street. There are several illegal ways to try and copy the 99 cam timing, none remotely legal and all easily detectable. Even if you get the 01 cam timing where you want it ( I have done this with an adjustable intake gear we had made) it is still not as good as a 99. If you adjust the cam timing illegally and put a 99 intake manifold on the car ( also illegal) you have a car that is as good or better than a good 99. I found 4-6 HP by changing intake alone..

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#3
Danimal

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Thank you Jim, I will check the old site for past discussions...How big of a difference is there above 6k RPM? It sounds like there will not be any cam advancement or significant rule changes to support the 01+ in the near future.

Did you notice a handling difference with your 01+ builds do to chassis redesign or is it a moot point with a good cage?

I also heard that on 01+ the ECU is matched to the key and ignition switch and must be changed together. Are there any other such oddities with the 01+? Of course I assume the ECU only goes out if you do something seriously irregular.

#4
Jim Drago

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Biggest enough difference that it matters 2-3 HP in Sm matters, it is more like 4.

no noticeable difference IMO in the 01 Vs 99 in handling

The key has a chip in it, you have to change with computer and immobilizer.

Jim

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#5
Ron Alan

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The key has a chip in it, you have to change with computer and immobilizer.

Jim


Can you expand on this? Ignition Key? or fob? Immobilizer? I have a 01 parts car...If certain parts need to be kept together...what are they?
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#6
Jim Drago

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Ron
Keep the key, ignition, computer and immbolizer ( small box under steering column about the size of a pack of cigarettes) it mounts on lower column cover
Jim

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#7
Ron Alan

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Thank you!
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#8
Brendan O

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But if its not competitive at many tracks, why wont smac change the rules?

#9
Jim Drago

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It is competitive at ALL tracks, may not be the best, but certainly competitive and can win anywhere. It is also the newest, most expensive and by far the least developed of all cars. Adjusting a few potentially under developed cars level with cars that have been fully developed for years makes little sense. Many including myself feel it could be good enough to try one. Dan Tiley, Nascar engineer and SMAC member is building one as well. Neither of us would be trying them if we thought they didn't have a chance. That being said, I still believe I will be in my 99 at Road America, but only time will tell

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#10
38bfast

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Just when the parity dust is all but clear, leave it to Jim to kick the bee hive :bash:
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#11
Jim Drago

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Just we the parity dust is all but clear, leave it to Jim to kick the bee hive :bash:


JOB SECURITY.. :)

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#12
john mueller

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#13
S. A. Crebleu

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Can you tell a 99/00 intake from a 01+ by looking at it? :whistling:
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#14
Jim Drago

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Can I or can you? :whistling: More importantly, can a tech inspector? The answer is yes they can, if they look. More importantly many competitors know this and I have intentionally posted that is where lots of the gains can be had in an 01+. So I would suspect if one starts going pretty quick, that would be the first place competitors looked.

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#15
S. A. Crebleu

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Kill joy.
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#16
Jim Drago

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'll post a picture of both when I get a second.. If you don't have a 99, the look the same at first glance, well they don't look out of place anyway

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#17
granracing

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Great info Jim. Thanks.
Dave Gran
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