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Hoosier tire on rim slippage

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#1
tako

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I'm getting tire slippage on the rim, more on the rears but fronts also. Using the sm6 on team dynamics 1.2. In just one qualifying session and one 30 min race my driver side rear slipped a distance of 3 spokes (almost 1/4 of the rim) passenger rear around 2 spokes. Fronts under 1 spoke

Obviously this throws the balance off. With the Toyos this never happened. Anything that can be done to prevent this at time of install? Anybody getting this on the TR mototrsports rims?

Seems silly to be balancing tires every couple sessions, so looking for any suggestions. thanks

#2
Jim Drago

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Yes, VERY common. It is not the wheels, it is the tires. The tires have far more grip than the Toyos. You have to mount the tires dry or you will be re balancing. It is a pain in the ass, but that is the best solution I have found. Tire guys will tell you it doesn't matter, that the lube drys out right away , it is water soluble etc. DRY DRY DRY!!!

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#3
davew

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It is definately in the tires. I have had it happen on every brand of wheel. Team Dynamics, d-force, enkie, TD etc.

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#4
FTodaro

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I used to have a really big problem with this in the GT3 I drove but I get it in the SM too. I tried using hair spray instead of the stuff they lube the tires with. it did not work, they get carried way with that tire lube and it leaves a residue. Once they get the tire mounted on the rim they need to go in an wipe that off or just use plain old water and dry it first before they inflate it.

If your really bothered by it and cannot overcome it by the water only and dry it good, mounting method, you can get the tire mounted with balancing beads that they put in the tire which always find the the right spot to keep the tire in balance. It works.

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#5
tako

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thanks for the quick responses, now to convince the tire installer :bash:

#6
KentCarter

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Perhaps that was my vibration at Road Atlanta. These things are a bitch to mount even gooey.
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#7
Joe (dad) Jordan

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You can ask the installer to wipe the bead area down before they air it up.

Most of the slippage occurs under breaking, to check if your tires are slipping simply put a chalk mark (a line) by the valve stem and pay attention if it moves away.

You would be amazed to see how much slippage occurs on all tires. I have found many wheels that have too big tolerances in the outer rim that cause this problem as well!

thanks for the quick responses, now to convince the tire installer :bash:


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#8
HoneyBadger - BrianW

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I am not sure how you would go about mounting the Hoosiers up with out at least some tire grease. I use a pretty minimal amount and it can sometimes be tough to get the bead to seat (will hold pressure, just won't pop). I would think it would be almost impossible dry.
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#9
MPR22

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I am not sure how you would go about mounting the Hoosiers up with out at least some tire grease. I use a pretty minimal amount and it can sometimes be tough to get the bead to seat (will hold pressure, just won't pop). I would think it would be almost impossible dry.


Brian,

Doing IT dry is never a good idea.

There is your PRP humor for the day.
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#10
HoneyBadger - BrianW

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Brian, Doing IT dry is never a good idea. There is your PRP humor for the day.

I asked for that....

The joke... not dry.
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#11
tako

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Enkei uses "special" paint and I've seen this roulette pattern thing in person.... but not sure if this would solve the problem entirely even if available
http://www.enkei.co....nology/process/

Kentcarter the only reason I found this out is cause after I rotated the tires initially the whole car was shaking like crazy over 80mph. Then I rebalanced and marked the valve stem location like mentioned above. Its amazing to me how much these things get twisted.

#12
philstireservice

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Try alcohol (as in rubbing) - but you got to be fast. Most tire guys don't realize you really don't need much lube at all to mount tires.

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#13
Keith Andrews

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I guess you are not dealing with an on track vendor. They all know about this issue.
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#14
Bench Racer

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From reading this thread info the issue seems to be the tire. Has the SCCA requested a documented solution from the tire manufacture?
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#15
Jim Drago

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This is NOT a major issue and certainly not an SCCA issue. Many solutions were noted above, or if your not satisfied, call Hoosier directly.

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#16
William Keeling

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Perhaps that was my vibration at Road Atlanta. These things are a bitch to mount even gooey.

don't think you were driving hard enought to move it on the rim :)

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#17
MPR22

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This is NOT a major issue and certainly not an SCCA issue. Many solutions were noted above, or if your not satisfied, call Hoosier directly.


Maybe we should ask the federal government to get involved. If there is a safety issue with the tires slipping and vibrating shouldn't the NTSB have oversight? After suspending racing on all tires for 2 years to determine if in fact this is an industry wide problem or just an isolated installation incident we could have a new 1000 page document outlining a plan of action that would be implemented over the following decade which accorrding to the OMB could save the country thousands of dollars in lost productivity if the projections are correct.

Or we could just say F'CK IT and go race a great spec tire that is highly predictable across a broad range of track conditions.
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#18
HoneyBadger - BrianW

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I personally find that I don't have any issues with the tires slipping on the rims after 15 heat cycles. Perhaps everyone that I race against should only use tires with at least 15 heat cycles. :)
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#19
James York

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From reading this thread info the issue seems to be the tire. Has the SCCA requested a documented solution from the tire manufacture?


What! How about a little leg work yourself. This is not unique to SM, SCCA or Hoosier.

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#20
Bench Racer

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What! How about a little leg work yourself.


Post #1. F & R tires sliping on the rims.

Post #2. Very common, it's not the wheels, it's the tires, dry, dry,dry.

Post #3. It's not the rims, it's the tires.

Post #4. I had slip in GT3 & have it now in SM.

Post #5. Now convince the tire installer.

Post #6. These things are a bitch to mount even gooey.

Post #7. Ask the installer to wipe the bead area down before they air it up.

Post #8. I use a pretty minimal amount and it can sometimes be tough to get the bead to seat (will hold pressure, just won't pop).

Post #11. Enkei uses "special" paint and I've seen this roulette pattern.

Post #12. Track tire guy, try alcohol (as in rubbing) - but you got to be fast.

Post #13. I guess you are not dealing with an on track vendor. They all know about this issue.

Post #14. Has the SCCA requested a documented solution from the tire manufacture?

The SCCA are the people that signed the tire contract, correct. If you have an issue with your crawfish do you go the the cattle rancher to solve the issue. If you were to do the same leg work that I did you would get the same answer I did.
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