87 replies to this topic

[Bench Racer]

OK, I will get on that.. "
Please add factory air cleaner back to 90-93 Miata like every other Miata in the class "

Come on now Jim, don't be all take with no give. You may give the 90-93 the factory air cleaner if you also give the 90-93 the 99 plus torque.

[Jim Drago]

I'm just trying to give the guy what he asked for.

You need the link to that Video of the the 1.6 pushing the 99 all the way up the hill and the front straight again? My 99 BTW

[LarryKing]

In all seriousness Jim, what about requiring everyone to use the Mazdacomp exhaust?

[MPR22]

In all seriousness Jim, what about requiring everyone to use the Mazdacomp exhaust?

^{How about everyone that logs in today chips in $2.00 and we buy you a Springfield Dyno exhaust.}

[Alex Bolanos]

^{How about everyone that logs in today chips in $2.00 and we buy you a Springfield Dyno exhaust.}

Or a car so he can run another class?

[LarryKing]

I've got a f@ck'n Springfield Dyno exhaust already. I bought a MazdaComp exhaust, a BSI exhaust, and a SD. I also have a stock airbox, a racing beat, an SP1 and an SP2 intakes.

I'm asking why did the exhaust become open to begin with, when it once was spec? Also, my argument is that by requiring all cars to be equal intake and (more restrictive) exhaust a lot of the porting hanky-panky is nullified.

Honestly, if y'all are happy with the status quo, so be it.

How's those SM Runoffs entries trending?

[MPR22]

I've got a f@ck'n Springfield Dyno exhaust already. I bought a MazdaComp exhaust, a BSI exhaust, and a SD. I also have a stock airbox, a racing beat, an SP1 and an SP2 intakes.

I'm asking why did the exhaust become open to begin with, when it once was spec? Also, my argument is that by requiring all cars to be equal intake and (more restrictive) exhaust a lot of the porting hanky-panky is nullified.

Honestly, if y'all are happy with the status quo, so be it.

How's those SM Runoffs entries trending?

If it were at COTA, Road Atlanta, Watkins Glen, VIR.... I belive there would be 50 entries. If you are using Runoffs attendance to judge the health of the class you are targeting a very small group. Funny how NASA has the same rules (99%) and you don't see a dip in their attendance? Must be the fact we don't have a spec exhaust. i'm fine with a spec exhaust, just make it the best one at a reasonable price.

[LarryKing]

See, everything is fine as is. Carry on.

Dear Mr. Landy, No adjustment is necessary. Thank you for your input.

[Danny Steyn]

Moose, here I am in Australia trying to make some money to fund my life that includes a really unhealthy obsession with racing chick cars and burning money.

Moose - we have dynoed the hale out of exhausts, (and every other part on the car, "spec" and "open") and wrt to exhausts found around 1 to 1-1/2 between the top performers. If we go to stock exhausts, we will still dyno the hale out of the stock exhausts to find the best one out of many.

At the 2010 Runoffs, I watched DDG change out several intake AFM sensors (or is it MAF sensors) on the dyno the hour before the race to give Steve the best AF ratio. Whether it is open or stock, those with the money and desire will always look for the edge.

Now in terms of the 1 to 1-1/2 HP we found between different exhausts, that pales in comparison with the time gained from running stickers in every qualifying session and every race, a lesson that we unfortunately learned a little late in this season. So those with the money and desire will chase that advantage too.

And believe me Moose, I fully understand that my response is playing perfectly into your notion that it is the haves that always defend the status quo. I get it. But I have been in many sporting pursuits in my many career changes and I have never seen a sport or endeavor where money doesn't provide someone an advantage. It will never compensate for talent, but when those with equal talent show up, the one that had the funds to pursue all the advantages will generally have the advantage....

I love the debate, I love the purists intentions, but there needs to be a concerted effort to move the needle. This discussion in this forum is not the way to do it. It is the wrong platform. IMO this needs a strong charismatic leader with town hall meetings at tracks with SM drivers to move the needle.

I haven't seen that sort of effort put in by anyone other than the SMAC and CRB members. I know you think they have their financial interests pegged to some of the things here, but as a business owner I will tell you that I am sure they will agree when I say that their best interests are served when this class is healthy, competitive and engaging to draw in new talent. If they do anything that hurts the health of the class, then they will lose more than you or I.

[LarryKing]

i'm fine with a spec exhaust, just make it the best one at a reasonable price.

What is your criteria for "best"?

[Bench Racer]

You need the link to that Video of the the 1.6 pushing the 99 all the way up the hill and the front straight again? My 99 BTW

How about the link with the 1.6 having the 99 plus torque. Then the 1.6 could do something with the 99 after catching the 99.

[LarryKing]

I know you think they have their financial interests pegged to some of the things here

You presume a lot Mr. Steyn.

[Jim Drago]

In all seriousness Jim, what about requiring everyone to use the Mazdacomp exhaust?

The Mazda comp exhaust is no longer available, I heard that this weekend at PRI. So that is the first problem. I have tried about 15 different exhaust trying to improve on the SD exhaust and had no luck. I have had two or three send me something that was "better", tested one myself that I was convinced was better. When all said and done., I am still running the SD exhaust. The gains in a 99 up car through exhaust now are very, very limited with the small plate. A more restrictive exhaust would be a penalty for the best breathing car(READ 1.6), not the worst.(READ 99/00) I have no problem running the same exact exhaust as ever one else, ( I am doing that for the most part now) but we would have to spec a new one or have someone else start building the Mazdacomp. As long as it was cheap as current alternatives and fits well and that is what the majority wanted, I would put it on no problem. Not sure what the benefit would be, but there would be no harm as long as the price stayed in check.

I think we have a pretty well defined rule, I have personally seen little gains over what is available to all inexpensively. What would the benefit of running the Mazdacomp be? Just so we are all on the same exhaust?

[MPR22]

What is your criteria for "best"?

You win. Pick any exhaust you want.

If the cars were all equal then you would complain the drivers aren't.

If you looked up the definition of gainsayer in the dictionay there would be a picture of a Moose.

[Johnny D]

my argument is that by requiring all cars to be equal intake and (more restrictive) exhaust a lot of the porting hanky-panky is nullified.

Could you explain your thinking on this...
1.6, 1.8, 99+ have different HP/TQ and use the RP and weight to even it out.

I do see the gap between Junkyard~crate~probuilt engines and stock~top prep cars.
What do you want to do about that ^.
J~

[LarryKing]

Not to drag Mr. Landy into this, but he started a thread about improving parity. Apparently everything is fine the way it is so no further discussion is necessary.

However, I must say I really enjoy the way many of you presume to know exactly how I think. I wish I had that kind of power over time and space.

FYI, not related to this discussion at all, but just for shiz and gigs, NASA Champs SM attendance: 2006 - 35; 2007 - 52; 2008 - 60; 2009 - 40; 2010 - 38; 2011 - 35; 2012 - 41

PS: imagine my disappointment when upon looking up gainsayer no such moose was found.

[JRHille]

convert the 1.6 to MAF

[Jamz14]

Hey Moose,

I certainly am not assuming I understand your point or exactly what you are thinking. And no sarcasm at all in that comment. As a newbie, I am very open to anything that people suggest to bring my car closer to the performance of the top runners. I just don't see sealed engines as the way to go. A couple of ex rotax racers have posted their opinion about their experience with sealed engines. As many know, I am an ex rotax sealed engine guy, but my opinion differs with the other rotax guys. I saw crazy spending with sealed engines too. But really, I am good either way.

I also think it is better to have multiple manufacturers making certain parts like exhausts. I think that it has the tendency to improve the part performance and works to keep costs low. How? Just good old fashion capitalism. In the Rotax world, only certain dealerships were allowed to sell certain parts. This kept the price high. For instance, the exhaust.......it was a spec exhaust with only one maker. It cost about $400 !!!!!!! This for a stupid kart exhaust??? Crazy! But if they opened it up, I would make an exhaust for the rotax karts and I'd do it for half the price and I would have all the sales until someone else made it for 10% under my price.

Then, as far as the car counts you cited. Is it possible that the decline coincided with the total economy tank and that has more to do with it than disatisfaction with the class? Is it a coincidence that it was up from the previous year this year when we are starting to see improvements with the economy?

Lastly, I truly believe that a more important conversation to have to keep the class going strong for another 5 + years is how do you attract more young racers in from karting or other forms of entry level racing.Including from the moto x classes. Programs like the Teen Mazda Challenge are the way to do this. I had no experience with running for NASA or SCCA before this year. I can tell you with certainty that it was the Teen Mazda program that decided it for us. There needs to be more of this. More partnering with programs like Gatorz Rotax, IKF, SKUSA, ETC. Show a bright and clear ladder and young drivers that can afford this crazy sport will come!

High field counts will keep the spec bodies motivated and looking to continue discussions on parity. If the counts are low, why bother. So to sum up, way more important even to your points to have conversations on how to attract more young racers. And old racers too! This should be the class that the 50 yr old plus guys want to join instead of running new 911's. What a complete waste to run a new GT3 your first year driving.

[LarryKing]

Any spec racer Ford drivers lurking?

Do people in SRF buy a dozen motors to get one "good one"?

[plane]

I think it is 90% Driver 10% car. The 10% matters for the top 2-3 guys and people going to Nationals. I good driver can do very close to track record times in my $6000 (upgraded a little since) beginner car. So actual parity is perhaps less of an issue than the perception that some people are really getting away with expensive "cheats" or magic grease and ruining it for the rest of us.

Perhaps each region should swap the top driver into a middle of the pack drivers car for a qualifying and race so that people can see the "value" of the crazy expenses. Implication is that there is very little, so average people can laugh at the expensive cars, not envy them.

All gear related race sports are this way. The key to keep the class growing and healthy is for the $15,000 guys to realize that they are losing because other drivers are better not because they spent a lot more $. Then we can all move on to complaining about coaching cost and people that just spend more time practicing - as we do in sailing.