20 replies to this topic

[Angry Sheep Motorsports]

Just an FYI for those running a 1.8 Miata in STL

 

1839cc rounds to 1850*1.35=2497.5+ (2497.5*.035)= 2585#

[38bfast]

Just no love

[Tom Sager]

Just no love

It's worse than that.  It's pure hatred.  

[Jim Drago]

It's worse than that.  It's pure hatred.  

it is even worse.. I passed rule on my own car and figured the weight wrong.. now I have to add another 25 lbs and buy two new stickers

[Michael Colangelo]

Why is it so hard for the SCCA brain trust to say that any Spec Miata can run in ITA as long as it runs in 100% Spec Miata-legal trim?

ITA is a regional-only class and SMs certainly aren't overdogs. ITA is a great class for SMs to double dip. STL is not.

[Ron Alan]

Why is it so hard for the SCCA brain trust to say that any Spec Miata can run in ITA as long as it runs in 100% Spec Miata-legal trim?
ITA is a regional-only class and SMs certainly aren't overdogs. ITA is a great class for SMs to double dip. STL is not.

I believe that is how it is in SFR?

[Rob Burgoon]

Why is it so hard for the SCCA brain trust to say that any Spec Miata can run in ITA as long as it runs in 100% Spec Miata-legal trim?

ITA is a regional-only class and SMs certainly aren't overdogs. ITA is a great class for SMs to double dip. STL is not.

 

Ties back into the hatred.  They hate getting beat by SMs, ESPECIALLY in SM trim.

[Jim Drago]

Why is it so hard for the SCCA brain trust to say that any Spec Miata can run in ITA as long as it runs in 100% Spec Miata-legal trim?

ITA is a regional-only class and SMs certainly aren't overdogs. ITA is a great class for SMs to double dip. STL is not.

 

Speaking for the "brain trust"  

In short the IT guys don't want their class used a double dipping dumping ground  for Spec miatas. The common opinion is that if you want to run in IT, please run to the rules in their class, just like they do, competitive or not.  You can however run in STL in SM trim whenever you like. We certainly would not make any special allowances for ITA miatas to run in SM, we would make them comply to our rules. 

Not that I agree, but it is their class and they certainly have that right.

[Tom Sager]

it is even worse.. I passed rule on my own car and figured the weight wrong.. now I have to add another 25 lbs and buy two new stickers

You have a dyno but you don't own your own sticker machine?  Messed up priorities.  Wait, maybe not.  You change motors more often than stickers. 

[Angry Sheep Motorsports]

No hatred folks. Just noticed that some folks didn't have the correct weight on their cars . This was a 2013 change based on STAC discussions post runoffs.

[KW78]

Who is on the STAC?  Is there a specific forum to discuss ST issues like there are for other classes?  (I mean other than SCCAforums.  That category is pretty dead there like so many) 

 

But yeah, the weight gain in the class since last year when I started my build is pretty f'n ridiculous.  A 1.8L is 320# higher than a 1.6 build???  on the same chassis and tire??  WTF!  Its basically a deal breaker for any more serious miata development there IMO.  Last year I think is was 2420ish if memory serves. 

 

The "SCCA Brain Trust" has to stop looking at things with the CC's to weight parameter like we are drag racers.  You have to both stop and turn that weight.  A 14#/hp class can accelerate at what, .15g's to .1g's?  But you have a 15% weight penalty for turning and braking g's??  It's bogus.  Its going to make STL a small bore grenade class. 

 

Kyle

[ner88]

But.....the 99'can run STL in ITS trim.....#2375 :-)

[DrDomm]

But.....the 99'can run STL in ITS trim.....#2375 :-)

...but only with a manual steering rack, right?

[ner88]

$560.00 new! ask me how I know.......

[DrDomm]

$560.00 new! ask me how I know.......

 

Really?!  Just seems silly.  Basically, if you have this rack you can take the restrictor off your '99 SM, but if you don't you have to run with the restrictor (and 25lbs extra).  That doesn't seem right.

[cam]

Keep in mind that there are a lot of other cars other than Miatas in ITx and STL classes.  The basic premise of the ITx rules is that if the rules do not say can, then you
cannot.  And the ITx rules do not say you can de-power a manual steering rack.  I am assuming this is a bigger deal for Hondas and such.  My Miata came from the factory with a manual steering rack and I prefer the feel.  

[Jim Drago]

Really?!  Just seems silly.  Basically, if you have this rack you can take the restrictor off your '99 SM, but if you don't you have to run with the restrictor (and 25lbs extra).  That doesn't seem right.

 

 

You are a looking at it from the perspective of a SM racer who would like to double dip in another class.  If you want to race as an IT car, you need to run in IT trim and meet their rules.  They are not asking for SM entries nor do they want to change their rules to make it easier for a SM to compete.

Jim  

[DrDomm]

You are a looking at it from the perspective of a SM racer who would like to double dip in another class.  If you want to race as an IT car, you need to run in IT trim and meet their rules.  They are not asking for SM entries nor do they want to change their rules to make it easier for a SM to compete.

Jim  

 

I understand totally Jim.  I'm not talking about running in IT.  I'm talking about running in STL as an SM or IT car. 

 

Take two '99 SM's that want to run/double dip in STL (something that helps the class with numbers as it grows).  One car has a manual rack and one has a depowered rack.  The one with the manual has a significant advantage over the one with the depowered (No restrictor/-25lbs).  Obviously, all the truly STL-spec'd cars have the ultimate advantage, but I'm talking about the SM's running in STL (a substantial portion of the STL field).

 

Not a super important topic, but it seems like something that should be addressed.  I don't like the "don't look, don't tell" policy.  So, I'm less inclined to run STL...knowing that some '99's can pull their restrictor, or that some do so "illegally".

[KW78]

...but only with a manual steering rack, right?

 

 

Nooooo....   It is absolutely legal per IT rules to run a power steering rack with no hoses. 

 

Disassembling the rack, and altering the inside....  That is not allowed...

 

The stewards or COA has to read the rule book as written, not what they hope it means or should mean or supposed to mean etc. etc...  

 

Kyle

[Jim Drago]

The issue comes up because in trying to make STL an inclusive class..  We set the rules to include all Sm's in Sm trim... We also allowed all the IT cars in It trim..  We didn't and wont start making further hybrid qualifications to get run.  In a Miata right now, you can run in STL trim, Sm trim, ITA or ITS trim and be legal for the class.

 

Admittedly when you break it down as you have, it does seem silly.   But making a change would be even more silly when none of the cars are competitive against a real STL car anyway.