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20 Minutes for a "Major" WTF

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#1
MPR22

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There is no reason for us to participate in the Majors' races if the powers that be insist on a 20 minute race.  

I was just at the Runoffs and they reduced our qualifying to 20 minutes on the last session and that became 14 minutes because of weather and track clean up issues.  Don't you think the same will happen.  Can you imagine travelling 1000+ miles for 14 minutes of race time?  It will happen if they keep this schedule.  

 

20 minute race sessions so you can add run groups will lead to even less time on track for all.  More run groups at a minimum adds down time to the day between sessions.  Compressed sessions will lead to even more aggressive driving and add to the danger of a race.  Don't tell me, "drivers should be responsible and reasonable and avoid contact"  if any of us fit that statement  we would not be racing cars.  In all seriousness, with shortened time windows for passes, hero passes become the norm and not the exception.

 

The Majors shouldn't be about seeing how many cars you can get on track in a weekend.  It should be about seeing how many great competitors you can get together and race at great tracks.  There is a small group of people running the Majors program and they should be listening to the members.     

 

We have a voice in this club, please write to the board of directors and let them know how you feel on this subject.  

 

2013 SCCA, Inc. Board of
Directors

 

bod@scca.com

        

Area 1 - Dick Patullo             Area 7 - Dan Helman

       

Area 2 - Jerry Wannarka       Area 8 - Bill Kephart    

   

Area 3 - Robin Langlotz        Area 9 - Brian McCarthy  

Area 4 - Steve Harris            Area 10 - John Walsh

Area 5 - Bruce Lindstrand     Area 11 - Michael Lewis    

Area 6 - Lisa Noble                Area 12 - Philip Creighton

                                               Area 13 - Todd Butler

    

       

   

Sorry about the formatting.        


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#2
DrDomm

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I'm with you 100%.  The idea that a "Majors" race would be 20 minutes is BS.  I can't imagine that after year 1, anyone complained that there was too much racing time.  I don't know what was wrong with the "Qual/Qual on Friday, Qual/Race on Saturday, Race on Sunday" format.  Get rid of the Saturday qualifying, if anything.


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#3
Johnny D

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#4
Blake Clements

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There was no issue with regular Double Nationals before all this majors crap was cooked up.

 

This is assenine.


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#5
Brandon

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I guess I'm confused.  I read the e-mail (not the posted PDF on SCCA.com) and it noted 20 minute qualifying sessions (not races) and they were maintaining a "45 mile race format" for all Majors.

 

Those must be some seriously fast lap times if you're going 45 miles at race speed in 20 minutes!  :-)

 

 

(edit)

Correct response needs to be: 20 minute race on SATURDAY with a 45 mile race on SUNDAY.

Though they don't note whether there will be any warm-ups or qualifying sessions on Saturday...


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#6
LarryKing

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Not that it matters to anyone - but I considered entering a Major last year - right up until I saw the entry fee. $550 - $600 for a club race is a no go for this schmoe.

 

Not gonna doit.


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#7
Blake Clements

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I guess I'm confused.  I read the e-mail (not the posted PDF on SCCA.com) and it noted 20 minute qualifying sessions (not races) and they were maintaining a "45 mile race format" for all Majors.

 

Those must be some seriously fast lap times if you're going 45 miles at race speed in 20 minutes!  :-)

 

 

(edit)

Correct response needs to be: 20 minute race on SATURDAY with a 45 mile race on SUNDAY.

Though they don't note whether there will be any warm-ups or qualifying sessions on Saturday...

 

It also doesn't say what will take place on Friday if its a 3 day event.

 

Having a sunday race based on times from potentially three sessions, including one race, is crazy talk.  That may work for the Runoffs, but this isn't the Runoffs.


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#8
MPR22

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Not that it matters to anyone - but I considered entering a Major last year - right up until I saw the entry fee. $550 - $600 for a club race is a no go for this schmoe.

 

Not gonna doit.

It does matter to everyone.  If you don't race because the perceived value per/smile is too high then how many others are they missing.  We all suffer when the car counts go down, as the fixed costs aren't lowered, so we all pay more per entry until it is not feasible to race. 


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#9
MPR22

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It does matter to everyone.  If you don't race because the perceived cost per/smile is too high then how many others are they missing.  We all suffer when the car counts go down, as the fixed costs aren't lowered, so we all pay more per entry until it is not feasible to race. 


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#10
Brandon

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Runoffs or not, that's how a lot of the events the JRB (Jersey Racing Board) puts on are formatted.

Qually, short qually race, set Sunday grid based on qually race finishing position.

(Some would argue it should still be times to set Sunday grid but when they call it a qually "race"?)

 

I happen to like it and to my knowledge/understanding it has not necessarily been poo-pooed by regular participants.


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#11
MPR22

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Runoffs or not, that's how a lot of the events the JRB (Jersey Racing Board) puts on are formatted.

Qually, short qually race, set Sunday grid based on qually race finishing position.

(Some would argue it should still be times to set Sunday grid but when they call it a qually "race"?)

 

I happen to like it and to my knowledge/understanding it has not necessarily been poo-pooed by regular participants.

Brandon,  

 

Do these events require more than 4 hours of travel?  Also are they charging $550-$600 per race?


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#12
LarryKing

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Speaking of fixed cost... The major at Mid-O in June had an entry fee of $570. The double regional at Mid-O this weekend cost $377. Same track, presumably the same rent, same volunteer personnel, roughly the same track time, and frankly, pretty much the same crowd of Great Lakes drivers. Why is the major so much more?

 

Is it a big deal because we are told it's a big deal? (The Kim Kardashian theory - famous because she's famous)


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#13
Marc Cefalo

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There is no reason for us to participate in the Majors' races if the powers that be insist on a 20 minute race.  

I was just at the Runoffs and they reduced our qualifying to 20 minutes on the last session and that became 14 minutes because of weather and track clean up issues.  Don't you think the same will happen.  Can you imagine travelling 1000+ miles for 14 minutes of race time?  It will happen if they keep this schedule.  

 

20 minute race sessions so you can add run groups will lead to even less time on track for all.  More run groups at a minimum adds down time to the day between sessions.  Compressed sessions will lead to even more aggressive driving and add to the danger of a race.  Don't tell me, "drivers should be responsible and reasonable and avoid contact"  if any of us fit that statement  we would not be racing cars.  In all seriousness, with shortened time windows for passes, hero passes become the norm and not the exception.

 

The Majors shouldn't be about seeing how many cars you can get on track in a weekend.  It should be about seeing how many great competitors you can get together and race at great tracks.  There is a small group of people running the Majors program and they should be listening to the members.     

 

We have a voice in this club, please write to the board of directors and let them know how you feel on this subject.  

 

2013 SCCA, Inc. Board of
Directors

 

bod@scca.com

        

Area 1 - Dick Patullo             Area 7 - Dan Helman

       

Area 2 - Jerry Wannarka       Area 8 - Bill Kephart    

   

Area 3 - Robin Langlotz        Area 9 - Brian McCarthy  

Area 4 - Steve Harris            Area 10 - John Walsh

Area 5 - Bruce Lindstrand     Area 11 - Michael Lewis    

Area 6 - Lisa Noble                Area 12 - Philip Creighton

                                               Area 13 - Todd Butler

    

       

   

Sorry about the formatting.        

I agree with you 1 million percent.  I have no idea who these stupidi asini are listening to.  I want my track time for the ridiculous entry fees they charge and 20 minute races don't cut it.  

 

SCCA can take the Majors program and shove it. 

 

  Every major I went to had entry fees of $525-$550!  seriously??? and now they think they'll simply reduce the length of track time on Saturday and everything will be just peachy..... They ought to be ashamed of themselves.

 

 

I'm with you 100%.  The idea that a "Majors" race would be 20 minutes is BS.  I can't imagine that after year 1, anyone complained that there was too much racing time.  I don't know what was wrong with the "Qual/Qual on Friday, Qual/Race on Saturday, Race on Sunday" format.  Get rid of the Saturday qualifying, if anything.

Domm, I want every single minute of track time.  For those that only want/need a few laps for qual, hey no problem....for me and countless others, I deserve to receive every single second on that damn track that SCCA is gouging me to race on!


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#14
Marc Cefalo

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Brandon,  

 

Do these events require more than 4 hours of travel?  Also are they charging $550-$600 per race?

for us in PA and NJ no.  at most its 3.5 hours towing.

 

no the upcoming event there is $290 for sat and sunday.


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#15
Brandon

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Some do, some don't and as far as the entry fees they have generally been around +/-$300.

 

I guess I don't understand the venom towards the Majors program.  Again, it's my understanding/thinking the reasons for the National Office to create it were multiple:

  1. Eliminate the divisional in-fighting for 'national events' that was prevalent during the planning part of the year (I witnessed plenty of this in NEDIV)
  2. Provide participants who desire "higher-profile" events to bring the best racers out to compete
  3. Identical formats/programs regardless of where you attended (think McDonald's in NYC == McDonald's in Hong Kong)
  4. Streamline appearances to the Runoffs by altering invite requirements (4x entries/finishes) & event formatting (all events are double weekends)
  5. Minimize potential travel requirements to gain an invite to the Runoffs

While I've not entered one yet, I'd have to say the above goals have been met and with feedback from participants they're looking forward to 2014 with enhancements to reinforce the good while trying to mitigate the bad from 2013.

 

Everything is a trade-off.  You get to formulate the equation for what point the travel + entry + vacation + misc. == not fun.  If the National Office experiences a significant drop in entries for 2014 and there's feedback pointing to why (not enough track time for the money, too long towing sessions...) then they can take it into account for 2015.


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#16
Marc Cefalo

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Speaking of fixed cost... The major at Mid-O in June had an entry fee of $570. The double regional at Mid-O this weekend cost $377. Same track, presumably the same rent, same volunteer personnel, roughly the same track time, and frankly, pretty much the same crowd of Great Lakes drivers. Why is the major so much more?

 

Is it a big deal because we are told it's a big deal? (The Kim Kardashian theory - famous because she's famous)

The major is more because they are trying to give us drivers the perception that the event is so much more. 

 

I can see the entry fees being more than a double regional IF the major event is over 3 days of track rental as opposed to just 2 for a double regional.  I'm sure SCCA national has their hand out making the host regions putting on the events, pay national more for the sanction fees of these Major events. :bs:


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#17
DrDomm

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I actually loved the Majors this year, despite not really being competitive.  I like being where all the big competitors are.  I just don't think a 20 minute "sprint" race is fair.  I thought 40 minutes was a "sprint" race.


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#18
FTodaro

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I actually loved the Majors this year, despite not really being competitive.  I like being where all the big competitors are.  I just don't think a 20 minute "sprint" race is fair.  I thought 40 minutes was a "sprint" race.

Its more like a quick walk rather than a sprint. solution, going back to an earlier thread, grid the filed inverted by age That works for me screw you guys. :wacko:


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#19
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#20
bienc

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20 minutes is too short and bordering on autocross seat time. 

 

I'll stick to regional (divisional now?) racing.







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