145 replies to this topic

[Sean - MiataCage]

I think you meant BFG Rival. 

The Stock Solo guys are leaving the R-comps for the new high performance street tires and most couldn't be happier.  The difference in performance is minor, but their useful life is orders of magnitude greater.  I would wager they would achieve Drago's requirement of "1-2 seconds slower and within .5 seconds over 15 heat cycles."  

R1 is the tire I have experience with.  We ran it in the 25 a few years back and also ran them in the Utah region since they had open tires.  I haven't bought an R1 in a while so maybe it was replaced  with the Rival that you speak of.... Not sure.  I do know the retail on the BFG was over $200.00 so a per lap price is probably no better than the Hoosier.

[Muda]

Huh, Rival is the street tire.  $114 at Tire Rack.  Wouldn't that be fun.  Bet they'd slud a lot.

Ran the R1 in an enduro a few years back.  Did 6 hours at Sebring for the win, a 2 hour the next day and a weekend of Sprint races.

[chris haldeman]

:-)

[FTodaro]

I have ran the BFG for three years regionally at mid o, as we had open tire. I had to because others were using them and they would not grain like everything else would. They were a second faster, in general, did Not drop off as much, and lasted a lot longer, more HC.

I admit, I have only ran this tire at 2 tracks so that is not a scientific test.

The last set I bought retail was, 180.00.

Problem with BFG could be I do not think they have a rain tire.

Jim I think the general answer to your post is a harder compound, it will last longer.

Phil, graining, I have gone out at mid o slow for 4 laps slow and grained tires, I find a green track is the worst. If your racing, you have no choice but to get after it on lape one, when the tire grains, it slows at least a second maybe more. Once it does grain, we have to take that tire to a different track to get the grain out.

Never grained a BFG.

[HoneyBadger - BrianW]

Honey Badger think new Hoos be better than old?  Honey Badger have lots-o-money.  Honey Badger don't care!

 

Yea, 6's.

Honey Badger doesn't car if the newer tires are better than the old ones, he just puts them on and races the crap out of them! Honey Badger doesn't have lots of money, Honey Badger takes what he wants!

 

Thanks.

[Joe (dad) Jordan]

I have ran the BFG for three years regionally at mid o, as we had open tire. I had to because others were using them and they would not grain like everything else would. They were a second faster, in general, did Not drop off as much, and lasted a lot longer, more HC.

I admit, I have only ran this tire at 2 tracks so that is not a scientific test.

The last set I bought retail was, 180.00.

Problem with BFG could be I do not think they have a rain tire.

Jim I think the general answer to your post is a harder compound, it will last longer.

Phil, graining, I have gone out at mid o slow for 4 laps slow and grained tires, I find a green track is the worst. If your racing, you have no choice but to get after it on lape one, when the tire grains, it slows at least a second maybe more. Once it does grain, we have to take that tire to a different track to get the grain out.

Never grained a BFG.

  They have a rain tire and it is good.  It looks like the street tired KDS with a soft compound.  Ran them at the runoffs in STL driver says as good as the H20

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Personally I think Hoosier has given us very good if not great customer service, 1 million times better then Toyo.  I like the RA1 best of all the tires I have driven on, including the BFG and Hoosier. 

 

The racing is closer right now with the Hoosier, then it ever was with the Toyos. Would BFG keep the racing as tight? I believe it would have the racing somewhere in between what is today and what it was on toyo.

 

I know for a fact. that the BFG is not faster then the Hoosier, I have driven on both, have won on Toya RA1 when all the others ran BFG.  I won on Hoosier with others on BFG.  Do Hoosiers sometime grain yes!, toyos do the same.  

 

No matter what we do on tires we will be lucky to please 50% of the people in this class...  

 

I would love for Hoosier to make us a harder compound tire, yet stick with the H2o rains, continue to give us outstanding customer service and pricing and trackside support.  Just remember a harder compound tire will spread the field not tighten it.

[fishguyaz]

 

.  Just remember a harder compound tire will spread the field not tighten it.

I dont see how changing a compound will do this if we are all using the same tire.

 

i used to run with a group who raced FF on street tires. the $250 set lasted the entire year, and new tires gave zero advantage over old ones.

wont ever happen in this class because people and egos. 

was really competitve and so much less $ in tires and engine wear.

enjoy

[svvs]

I dont see how changing a compound will do this if we are all using the same tire.

 

i used to run with a group who raced FF on street tires. the $250 set lasted the entire year, and new tires gave zero advantage over old ones.

wont ever happen in this class because people and egos. 

was really competitve and so much less $ in tires and engine wear.

enjoy

Josh:

 

It would probably spread the field out because the stickier tires cover up a lot of mistakes.

 

Also if the tires have less grip......drivers with superior car control will have an easier time driving away from the guys without that car control.

 

The way I drive the hoosiers is different than the way I drove the Toyos.  Also, with the stickier tires I have found myself closer to the "fast guys" than I used to be.  So I feel the same way....I get away with a lot more on the Hoosiers than I did on the Toyos, so I'll head into a corner faster than I used to.

 

-Vick

[Danny Steyn]

My take on the tires is a little different in one respect. Its the H2O that is the most expensive tire to run.

 

• Hoosier SM6 - great tire, no shaving, blisteringly fast when new, falls off way too much between new and several heat cycle tires, gives way too few fast heat cycles, and is WAY more expensive to run at the front than the Toyo RA1's. But I like them,and the racing the last two seasons has been close but expensive

 

• Hoosier H2O - no doubt an awesome rain tire that gives everyone confidence in the wet, but it is by far the most expensive rain tire ever. Heaven help you if a wet race starts to dry out, those soft H2O's are done in one session. IMHO, the Toyos were way better as a rain tire. You could run the same Toyo RA1 unshaved rain tire for an entire season, and that includes sessions that started to dry out. As a rule I go out in every rain session no matter if it is a test, qually or race, as I never know when I will be back at a track in a rain race and I want to learn the rain lines. And I have done so since I started racing. This 2013 season we didn't have a single rain race, but I used up 2-1/2 sets of Hoosier H2O's, whereas in 2011 we had several rain races, lots of rain sessions and I only used on set of Toyos the whole season.

So personally I would love a MUCH HARDER rain tire that we can use over and over again, even if it is much slower (and I am not saying this because I like sliding sideways in the rain)

 

As for lap times, honestly who cares how fast the tire is, as long as we are all on the same sensible, durable, affordable tire, who cares how fast or slow it is. 

 

So to recap, I would love to see more durable dry and rain tires, so we can spend less on this aspect of racing.............

[Jim Drago]

As for lap times, honestly who cares how fast the tire is, as long as we are all on the same sensible, durable, affordable tire, who cares how fast or slow it is. 
 
So to recap, I would love to see more durable dry and rain tires, so we can spend less on this aspect of racing.............

+1 I agree 100%

Another thing to consider is many such as myself dont go out in the rain unless it is a need to as I don't want to use up rain tires. Now that I christened my first set, I will run those in run sessions and keep the new ones for rains races etc. They are great wet tires

[Todd Green]

Ran BFG's in 2010 when we had open tires. Looked up a bill:

4 P205/50ZR -15 BFGoodrich g-Force R1 In Stock $160.00 $640.00

Looked at TireRack right now. $197. Yikes! (Though there is a rebate, so they're effectively $184.50) Who knows what they'd be as a spec tire. (E.g., look at the price difference between an SM6 and a R6.)

 

Absolutely loved those tires. Joe - What rain (DOT-R) tire does BFG have?  I don't remember them having one when we wrote in letters to the SCCA, which seemed to be a nail in the coffin for them.

 

Anyway, no shaving needed, they were fast, lasted forever, and didn't fall off badly.  If they have a good rain tire now, I'd be all for going to them.  However if NASA isn't going to leave the RR/RA-1, I'd think it'd be in SM racers best interest to have the SCCA move back to Toyo.

 

Edit: WRT to the Rival.  It would have to be shaved.  IF SM ever goes back to a tire needing shaving, say hello PTE/E3 for me.

[Derrick Ambrose]

Here is the link for the BFG rain tires.

 

-Derrick

 

 

[suck fumes]

Anyone ever try the Toyo RS1?

[Brandon]

While SM will be on Hoosier and offer a regional contingency. Regional classes can run whatever tire they like in classes like SMt, SMx etc.

 

And thus begins the ad nauseum discussion about 'too many classes' in SCCA racing.
*reaches for his dead horse*

 

To wit: here in the NEDiv, we've got SM, SSM, & SM2 and each have their own allowances with respect to tires.  What the BoD is suggesting is regions now run Divisional races incorporating an "SM Any" class to support those who don't care about Runoffs qualifications and can run whatever previous SM-spec tire?

The mind reels....

 

Speculation and curiosity: How much of this rule change is an attempt to appease Hoosier in some fashion for offering Divisional-level contingencies?

I imagine the regions will still offer whatever tire spec rule-sets they wish to appease their members (and event entrants).

 

Unless the National office will not provide sanction numbers for events whose supps do not explicitly spell out the SM tire rule.

 

Glad I'm going to our divisional mini-con this year...

[philstireservice]

I have ran the BFG for three years regionally at mid o, as we had open tire. I had to because others were using them and they would not grain like everything else would. They were a second faster, in general, did Not drop off as much, and lasted a lot longer, more HC.

I admit, I have only ran this tire at 2 tracks so that is not a scientific test.

The last set I bought retail was, 180.00.

Problem with BFG could be I do not think they have a rain tire.

Jim I think the general answer to your post is a harder compound, it will last longer.

Phil, graining, I have gone out at mid o slow for 4 laps slow and grained tires, I find a green track is the worst. If your racing, you have no choice but to get after it on lape one, when the tire grains, it slows at least a second maybe more. Once it does grain, we have to take that tire to a different track to get the grain out.

Never grained a BFG.

 

 

BFG does have a R compound rain tire now....

 

BFG does have a R compound rain tire now....

[Sphinx]

My source gave me a little of heads up a few weeks ago and did say that a stiffer sidewall will be introduced leading to increased corner speeds.

I suspect they did this due to the premature wear issue we get on the edges of the tire. Hopefully we will see increased life of the tire with the new change too.

 

I'm a little behind, but this is the first time that I've come across a post about premature wear on the edges.  Can you describe in more detail what you've experienced?

 

I just had a set cord both left side tires on the inside edge of the tires.  I've been practicing at a track that runs counter-clockwise, mostly left turns as a result.  Not sure if that's driving style where I'm sliding the tires too much?  Or perhaps too much left side camber (car is setup with the JD setup guide parameters)?  Interestingly, I got uniform tire temps across the face, though I didn't take temps in the session that I got the cording.  I still have plenty of tread across the rest of the contact patch.

[AW33COM]

I just had a set cord both left side tires on the inside edge of the tires.

 

 

Are you sure the car is not too low and you're grinding the tires against something? 

[Sphinx]

Are you sure the car is not too low and you're grinding the tires against something? 

 

Pretty sure. Car was set up at 4 5/8 at the pinch welds as JD recommends.

[Jay Stroud]

With a rental fleet of 5 SM's in the Southeast running both NASA, SCCA and track days with various groups, I hate having to manage 2 different brand of tires.  My sentiments are pretty much the same was what has been posted thus far. SM6 is faster but we're lucky to get 12-15 session out of them.  With the RR I can easily get 40.  They're not as fast, but I will often use them for SCCA test days to preserve the Hoosiers for official track time.  I can then use them for track day events when "lap times" are not as important.  

 

Something I thought may help the others who have had problems with RR wear is that I have found the key to the RR is following the mounting an break-in procedure and then rotating to the opposite corner after every 2 sessions.  We're only on SE tracks so I can't speak to the others (CMP is probably the only exception to this in the SE that we've found).  40 sessions is easy...I was trying to get 60 until renter flat spotted one at AMP a few weeks ago. The other still have life on them and grip is still there....pretty impressive.

 

So....I believe most guys running up front like the SM6's better but regional guys or one with less budget probably prefer the RR.  The RR has really helped me keep rental rates down.  For events with the SM6, I do have to charge more since it is highly consumable.  Sounds like the SM7 will eliminate this so I look forward to trying them since sanctioning bodies won't be united next year.  

 

Just my 2 cents....

 

~js