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Cool new product from one of our own - Cliff Brown


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#41
Walter Vetter

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In the Great State of Ohio both long guns and handguns may be sold at gun shows without permit, license, registration or background check. Consequently Ohio has develped a reputation as a one-stop supershop for felons and gang members who wish to easily obtain firearms. Basically all your need is proof of age. Any attempt at closing this loophole is met with resistance from the NRA and the pro-gun lobbyists.

 

Folks, this is how legally obtained firearms and ammo make it into the hands of criminals (those cool R.I.P. rounds might be flyin back at ya).

 

Gun-rights advocates claim that when you restrict guns then only criminals will have them. The flip side of that theory is when everyone may possess these arms, anyone can.


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#42
Bench Racer

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AMERICA’S HUNTERS:  

 

conclusion:

There were over 600,000 hunters this season in the state of Wisconsin. Allow me to restate that number: Over the last several months, Wisconsin’s hunters became the eighth largest army in the world, with more men under arms than in Iran, and more than France and Germany combined. These men deployed to the woods of a single American state, Wisconsin, to hunt
with firearms, and no one was killed. That number pales in comparison to the 750,000 who hunted the woods of Pennsylvania, and Michigan’s700,000 hunters, all of whom have now returned home safely. Toss in a quarter
million hunters in West Virginia and it literally establishes the fact that the
hunters of those four states alone would comprise the largest army in the
world. And then add in the total number of hunters in the other 46 states. It’s millions more.

 

Now add in those that own guns that are not hunters.


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#43
Johnny D

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Bench, your talking about the 99% IMO which I think alot of us are fine with.

 

How about this.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=nlCPlrULSGA

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=SGhHXwc17wQ

 

But with every point there's a counter point.

The videos above could give reason why you should have a lethal weapon or why you shouldn't.

J~


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#44
Walter Vetter

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Eight deer season related accidental shootings in Wisconsin in 2013. None fatal.


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#45
MPR22

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Which brings up a question, how many of us that own a gun could pull the triger on another human, scum bag or otherwise??? :noidea:

If someone where in my home or attempting to enter my home to harm any member of my family or I perceived their intent was to harm my family I would have ZERO qualms about ending their existence.  Would i carry a weapon in public?  No.  I agree that the tendency for a bad situation to escalate into a worse situation when a firearm is present is more likely.  It is far easier to assess a situation and avoid a conflict than it is to extricate oneself from a conflict once it has begun.  That being said, I don't begrudge a persons right to defend themselves with a firearm outside of the home.  The reality is there are bad people that walk this earth and they have no problem committing unprovoked violence.  They do not submit to background checks, they do not give notice to the authorities they are headed out to maim, injure, rape and kill.  Restricting access to firearms by law abiding citizens while not imposing the same restrictions on the malevolent souls that commit most of the violent crime is not the answer.  How any human can tell another human they do not have the right to defend oneself is beyond my comprehension.   Almost no woman can physically stand up to a man who intends her harm.  What if she had a knife or bat?  What if the man had knife or a bat? The man would still have the upper hand.  Now give the woman a firearm, some training and situational awareness and she is the man's equal or superior in the same confrontation, even if he has the gun.  

 

Two quotes from an acknowledged master of warfare :

 

“There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare. ” 
― Sun TzuThe Art of War

 

“The greatest victory is that which requires no battle.” 
― Sun TzuThe Art of War

 

The first speaks to Cliff's bullet design, it has the ability to end the confrontation quickly.  (If you shoot someone you damn well intend to kill them what is the harm in doing it more effectively). 

 

The second speaks to keeping out of those types of confrontations.  Not always possible, a person would have to be naive to think violence always occurs by mutual consent.  


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#46
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Eight deer season related accidental shootings in Wisconsin in 2013. None fatal.

Denny, your point being, what. There have been years in WI that deer hunters have been killed. Should we eliminate deer hunting? Taking guns away from 600,000 hunters plus guns from non-hunters in WI alone will never happen. But the government piss ants always talk about taking away guns and regulating clip sizes because it's easier TV talk than talking about the real issue with gun deaths. Friend, it's between the ears that is the root cause of killings.  

 

"The execution of Dennis McGuire at the Southern Ohio Correctional Facility took 25 minutes,"

Some things in Ohio take longer.

 

Michael, I own several guns including a 9mm hand gun, full brass for practice, hollow points for protection. Under circumances within my home, I don't believe pulling the triger would be an issue. Several of us that eat breakfast and hunt have had more than one conversation about shooting a human woundering if because of hunting past there would be less though pulling the triger on a human within our homes. Hope the time never comes to find out the answer.  


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#47
Ron Alan

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I get what Rg Bargy and Alberto (and Jim) are saying. I remember just after 911. I was going down to the post office and I saw these young men (kids) that were very excited and hooping and hollering about just signing up and couldn't wait to get to Iraq and kill some rag heads. I understand completely having national pride and being excited to serve your country. But I thought to myself that these kids have no idea what they are talking about and that once they get there, they will find that killing people isn't all that it is cracked up to be. Ever watch the movie platoon? That was a major point in the film. That war and killing is not something to be excited about. A duty sometimes yes. A necessity sometimes yes. But not something to be celebrated, glamorized, or desired. I even get kids being excited to go to war. But men I think know better. And I think our Veterans know even more better. I am old enough to know people that went to Vietnam, non of them speak of it with fondness and longing, if they speak of it at all.

 

I don't begrudge this good man from making a good product and an effective and better way of killing people. Not at all. I am proud of him as an American and glad he is on our side. But the talk of killing is somber for me. Nothing exciting about it. That being said, I also get that you can be excited about talking about new guns and different ammo. Especially if that is your industry or hobby. But the moment that translates into a conversation about the application of those tools, I am not laughing anymore. I respect this work from an engineering perspective. Like Alberto, I am glad I have been able to use my skills in avoiding situations that could possible put me in the position of taking another mans life, maybe that means I am a pussy. But like Jim, I don't think I would ever forget it if I had to. But don't confuse me being a possible pussy with a lack of will to pull that trigger without hesitation if for some reason I found that I could no longer avoid a threat to my family. You will be dead and laying on the floor and I will be on my knees, shaken to the core for what I had just done.

Well said James. Anyone who would disagree is exactly who we hope doesnt have access to lethal weapons but some feel necessary to be prepared in case they do! So appreciate your ability to put into words your thoughts without prejudice!


Ron

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#48
Walter Vetter

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Bench - what point were you making with the hunting update?

 

 

Almost no woman can physically stand up to a man who intends her harm.

You've obviously never met my wife.


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