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Front Hub Rebuild Q's - Rear race metal shield?

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#1
Vicktor Volpe

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I know Front Hubs have been covered on this site a bunch, but I didn't see my specific question so I figured I would ask.

 

Spent part of today repacking three front hubs.  I had one lying around, and I ordered up two used ones from Planet Miata.

 

Keeping in mind I have only done this once before, I grabbed the front hub tutorial (thanks Muda) and started down the steps.

 

The first hub I did I got lucky...it was an older 10 ball bearing model that Planet had sent me.  Came apart and went together no problem.  The only difficult part was the white plastic cages for the ball bearings is not as flexible as the black one for the 11 ball bearing ones.  However it was much easier to get the "front" ball bearings back into these cages.  The rear seal was in great shape and it went right in.  Both races spin pretty freely.

 

Second one was also a used one from Planet.  Take apart and goes together no problem (just the normal amount of cursing associated with the front balls but I'm getting better at those).  I popped in a new rear seal from Advanced and put it to the side.  Front race spins easy, rear race is a bit difficult

 

Now the third one I had already done previously, but was just waiting on new seals from Advanced.  For some reason I couldn't get the seal in.  Even tried a BFH...

 

Turns out this rear race has an extra metal flange on it?  Is this some type of rain shield or something?  I basically popped the rear race out, put in the new seal, then put in the rear race with its extra metal flange.  This hub the front race spins freely, but the rear race is VERY stiff.

 

Any thoughts from the guys who see these things more often than I do?  Did I make a mistake when re-assembling hub number 3?

 

In the picture of the three hubs, the right is the "old style" 10 ball bearing hub, the middle is the one I reassembled with the flange on that rear race (The third one I did), and the one on the left is the one that came with no flange on the rear race.

 

The other picture shows the two types of rear races I found.

Attached File  races.JPG   128.42KB   4 downloads

Attached File  hubs.JPG   126.55KB   3 downloads

 


Vick
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#2
Keith Andrews

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I'll tell you what I have done without issue.  I have just taken the metal seal (metal flange) off and used the new Advanced seals as you did on Hub 1.  (I just hammered it off, without damaging the race)  I don't know if it is right or wrong but it works.  

 

I didn't like the way the Advanced seal and the new style metal seal (metal flange) mated.  

 

I'm sure there are reasons not to do this but I thought it was worth a try and have been very pleased with the results.  No DNF's or surprises.


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#3
FTodaro

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the metal flange type is new. I am not sure the advanced auto sport seals are the right ones for the new style Hub. maybe Dave will comment but i did not think the were the same thickness either so I did not use them on the newer style hub.


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#4
Brian129

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What have people been doing with the metal ring type of seal?

Repacking as normal? Or is it using the old style seal?
I have salvaged a few seals from rusted bearings. I could use.

#5
Qyxz

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What have people been doing with the metal ring type of seal?

Repacking as normal? Or is it using the old style seal?
I have salvaged a few seals from rusted bearings. I could use.

I have one of each on my car.  This past weekend I repacked and used the appropriate inner rubber seal on the corresponding race.  When the one that goes with the metal ring starts to go bad, I'll probably cut off the metal ring and switch to the "bare" style seal. In my opinion, as long as it works, repack as normal. 


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#6
FTodaro

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I replace and have also salvaged some old seals to use. All of my hubs are off of old cars, no steel sleave. Old is good in hub world.

Frank
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#7
SaulSpeedwell

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I don't want to create any drama with various purveyors of bearing-related things, but as far as I know, the metal face shield is the later/greater lower-parasitic-loss seal design. The original design is a rubber seal that "squeezes" the inner race radially.  The later design is a metal shield that rides "on" (not so much "in") the lip of the seal axially (less so radially), in an attempt to achieve the same sealing integrity but with less drag.  This is all laid out in the NTN bearing literature, if anyone can still find it.  I posted a link to it somewhere on here.

 

A similar situation exists with the rear bearing, which was used in OEM production much longer (and maybe still is, as it was/is essentially a FWD bearing used in many platforms, versus the Miata-specific front hub).  I also posted pictures of the rear bearing revisions somewhere on here.


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#8
Brandon

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Unfortunately, the seals that Advanced sells doesn't work with the flange-type race. You have to remove the flange to be able to install (and keep installed) that inside race.

Removing it isn't difficult and can be done with a pair of channel locks.

 

If you're buying the enduro hubs from MSP, they come with the flange and so the seal behind requires it to be present.

 

P.S. Vick, that right-most hub is a type I've never seen before!


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