15 replies to this topic

[Jim Drago]

You may want to read this letter and submit some input one way or the other.  The miata is primary sportscar that started this conversation. A little back ground, the miata has had weight added to it each of the last two years. I believe the 1.8 miata started STL at 2485 in 2012 and is now 2635, no upgrades allowed since its' inception, just weight penalties.  Those who use STL to double dip should keep an eye on fastrack, there are some interesting ideas floating around on other forums that could adversely effect or basically eliminate SM's racing in STL in the future.

 

Jim

 

 

 

 

 

 

STL

1. #14472 (Kirk Knestis) Consider Differences Between Sports Cars and Touring Cars in STL

Instead of adding more weight to all rear-wheel drive cars, the CRB is considering a performance equalizer in STU and STL 

specifically for “sports cars”, as opposed to standard “touring cars”.

The definition of “sports cars” includes such features as:

1. Engine location (front, front-mid, rear-mid, rear),

2. Number of doors,

3. Suspension design,

4. Overall dimensions, and/or

5. Manufacturer-published interior volume.

Among the equalizers being considered are (for sports cars) are:

1. Smaller tire section width,

2. Additional weight(with or without reducing overall class base weights), and

3. Restrictors.

The CRB would like membership input on the general idea, as well as thoughts on definitions/characterization of a sports car and 

suggested performance equalizers. Please send your feedback through the SCCA letter system at crbscca.com.

[Jeff Wasilko]

http://www.improvedt...ouring-car-quot

has much of the original discussion/debate.

[tripplej93]

Wow, my head hurts after reading most of that thread.  IMHO, without Miatas STL would not have many entries.   I forget what is required to qualify for a National Championship (maybe nothing anymore, kinda lost track)?  Many people in that thread seem to have Miata phobia.   Funny how people want to take one of the biggest classes and kick out or penalize the most popular car in the class.   And this makes sense because?????????

 

Gotta love it!

[chris haldeman]

All "other" drivers fear miata drivers because "we" come from real racing in proper rear drive cars!!! Case in point look at the stupidity that took Matt Reynolds championship from him in ep prod at the runoffs. Read the quotes read the post race reports too see how Mazda was denied a championship because " spec miata" drivers and there ways are not welcome in other classes. It's called racing fool!!! Please don't make me build a Honda!!! Just because gilslinger can't win don't make a rule change inmo

[FTodaro]

Discuraging double dip SM drivers in STL, will cost regions thousands of dollars of revenue, and make SCCA events less attractive in general. Forest through the trees, people.

[DrDomm]

I can't read through 18 pages.  I don't think it's about SM double-dippers, though.  It's about purpose built rear-drive sports cars being allowed in the class, and having an advantage over a traditional touring car. I think they have a point.  The problem is whether there is enough interest to actually have traditional touring classes like STL and STU.

[Parity]

Easy solution. Tighten rules for purpose built STL Miata's but make exception for Miata's in SM trim. Too easy?

[forestdweller37]

I'm thinking about writing a letter in as I'm one of those pesky SM's that runs STL on occasion.

 

Does anyone know what sort of lateral G numbers one of those Mac-strut "touring cars" on R6's is able to generate?

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Even an its trim miata cannot win the class.

The scca would have to be retarded to let it fly as we are half their field between sm trim and its trim.

Its how regions get a few more $$$$ out of us each weekend.

[zoomzoom22]

Wow. Not in favor. Funny there are almost no real STL cars being raced. The notion that if the double dipping miatas were out of the class that all of a sudden people would start building STL cars is hilarious. Even funnier is the definitions being used touring versus sports car. For instance saying 2 seats is a sports car, 4 seats and 4 doors is touring but a 2+2 seat 2 door car that no adult over 12 years old could sit in the back seat will be called a touring car?? And just so happens there is a lot of bias on that particular 2+2 being a touring car with most of the posters, imagine that.

If the miatas are booted out of stl then stl should revert to a regional only class until all those people start building real stl cars and they come out to race. Otherwise stl is going to be home for 2 car classes at nearly all the races. Until stl races start getting won by non miata half ass builds this noise will continue to try to balance the class. Seen often in the pages and pages of hat thread is I don't want to build nor race a miata so give me an advantage and plenty of I am sick of being beat by a miata.

[ner88]

I believe a big part of the problem may be SM cars that remove their restrictors and weight then run as ITS trimmed cars.

de-powered steering racks, SM head work and ride height are not ITS legal.

[Danny Steyn]

I believe a big part of the problem may be SM cars that remove their restrictors and weight then run as ITS trimmed cars.

de-powered steering racks, SM head work and ride height are not ITS legal.

 

You might be right on this, but lets get real, a legal SM without weight and no restrictor does not even begin to approach a properly built ITS built Miata 

[zoomzoom22]

You might be right on this, but lets get real, a legal SM without weight and no restrictor does not even begin to approach a properly built ITS built Miata

But plenty of them good enough to beat the cars that the guys are driving that want the rules changed. Just sayin

[tripplej93]

The way I count, the STL Runoff's field would be 10 cars without the Miata, the CRX, and the pre '86 RX 7.   And what would the local major races look like?  Of course, somehow the CRX would be within the "spirit" I am sure.

 

Of course, building an '86 on RX 7 would be fun just to piss off all the complainers in that thread.   Back seat?  Yes (at least on enough to qualify).   Ability to build a killer engine?  Oh yeah.   It would be fun to do except I would have to pull the motor out of Joey Jordan's street car as it has most of the right parts to make a good place to start.   Maybe his whole car.

 

I swear Road Racers eat their young.

[Joe (dad) Jordan]

The way they have scheduled the runoffs this year, makes it really tough to race both classes with the same car at the runoffs if you finish in the top 6....  

 

The STL race on Saturday at 830AM!  I don't expect top 6 will get out of tech until late on Friday.....if that early

 

If  you have to pull your car totally apart and back together for STL I think it will be tough or impossible.  I guess they want a smaller field.  

 

We did not enter STL because of this.  Yes I know you can have 2 cars, 2 motors etc, but not in the budget..

[ner88]

Danny I agree 100% but if anyone is going to run their SM car in STL it can't be run as an ITS car if its not legal.

You'll never get the ITS rules changed just for Miatas :-(

 

We generally enter our SM cars in STL (in SM trim) and use the sessions for testing.