11 replies to this topic

[bmw251]

I think one of the great things about owning an SM is that you could run in multiple classes. I truly believe this is how regions make it work financially. Sometimes 1 racer equals 3 entries. This could be ending...

IT crossover--- I am pretty sure besides the 1.6 Torsen, power rack conversions, and possible ride height problems , the biggest issue would be head prep. I can not believe a full blown SM head is still IT legal. Now to be sensible it would be smart for IT to just legalize a legal SM to direct crossover to either ITA or ITS. There are many miata haters and want to make zero allowances.

STL crossover--- do the current head prep with this plung cut and blend exceed STL allowances? It is my understanding that if the car is in Legal SM form this would be a non-issue. If outside of sm legal a higher weight and additional items like driveshaft loops would be needed.

PTE--- already on the NASA forum a member stated that you need to look at SM's running due to this higher head prep ..... They put a link to our forum to see whT has been going on.. I understand why...if it is not legal or addition points need to be taken to run PT the competitors running other cars should be raced fairly.

The crazy thing to me is that in full blown SM trim.....even with this head issue, an SM would or should not win these crossover categories. I cam back to SM this year so I could get more track time by running many groups on the weekend. It is my personal opinion that track time seems to be lower than it was in the past... With most weekends with just a qualifying and a race in a day. The big expense for me is to get yo the track, 4 sessions a day is what I am looking for... Crossover is the only way to get it. Hell, a few weeks ago I ran just in SM and it was a total waste of a Sunday. We only raced on Sunday and used our race time from Saturday as qualifying..... Waited all day to race at like 2:00 pm. In my area NASA only has 2 run groups and there is no race crossover possibilities.... However you can run in a time trail group that same weekend. My engine builder was nice enough to call me and say that my motor is completely fine and there is no issue reguarding the head prep.
I hope the SCCA and NASA can make things right for all and at the same time strike up deals with the crossover groups allowing a fully Legal SM run in IT, STL, PTE without any variation. These deals with the other groups would increase their numbers and help with contingencies for the race winners ( which would not be SM cars). This action would also create and stabilize the value of our investment. Our cars hold value over other classes... This would actually increase 1.6 values. I know 1.6's run in ITA in many regions but they are not legal if running Torsen,and additional bracing.
Thanks for reading my nonsense

Greg

[Johnny D]

A "full blown" IT, STL, PTE car would blow away a FB SM because a FB SM is still within factor spec, basically. Less HP/TQ than the others

 

Now a SM driver can blow away a lot of FB IT, STL, PTE driver, beause of the driver skill level, IMO.

J~

[bmw251]

thats not going to help get a deal with the other groups...... WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CAR PREP.

[Johnny D]

"get a deal"  hummm??

 

Oh, "thanks for reading my nonsense"  got it.

J~

[forestdweller37]

STL rules specifically state that an SM may run in STL under SM rules.  The only exception is that the spec SM tires are no longer required.

 

The same is true for IT cars in STL.

[mdavis]

I think one of the great things about owning an SM is that you could run in multiple classes. I truly believe this is how regions make it work financially. Sometimes 1 racer equals 3 entries. This could be ending...

IT crossover--- I am pretty sure besides the 1.6 Torsen, power rack conversions, and possible ride height problems , the biggest issue would be head prep. I can not believe a full blown SM head is still IT legal. Now to be sensible it would be smart for IT to just legalize a legal SM to direct crossover to either ITA or ITS. There are many miata haters and want to make zero allowances.

STL crossover--- do the current head prep with this plung cut and blend exceed STL allowances? It is my understanding that if the car is in Legal SM form this would be a non-issue. If outside of sm legal a higher weight and additional items like driveshaft loops would be needed.

PTE--- already on the NASA forum a member stated that you need to look at SM's running due to this higher head prep ..... They put a link to our forum to see whT has been going on.. I understand why...if it is not legal or addition points need to be taken to run PT the competitors running other cars should be raced fairly.

The crazy thing to me is that in full blown SM trim.....even with this head issue, an SM would or should not win these crossover categories. I cam back to SM this year so I could get more track time by running many groups on the weekend. It is my personal opinion that track time seems to be lower than it was in the past... With most weekends with just a qualifying and a race in a day. The big expense for me is to get yo the track, 4 sessions a day is what I am looking for... Crossover is the only way to get it. Hell, a few weeks ago I ran just in SM and it was a total waste of a Sunday. We only raced on Sunday and used our race time from Saturday as qualifying..... Waited all day to race at like 2:00 pm. In my area NASA only has 2 run groups and there is no race crossover possibilities.... However you can run in a time trail group that same weekend. My engine builder was nice enough to call me and say that my motor is completely fine and there is no issue reguarding the head prep.
I hope the SCCA and NASA can make things right for all and at the same time strike up deals with the crossover groups allowing a fully Legal SM run in IT, STL, PTE without any variation. These deals with the other groups would increase their numbers and help with contingencies for the race winners ( which would not be SM cars). This action would also create and stabilize the value of our investment. Our cars hold value over other classes... This would actually increase 1.6 values. I know 1.6's run in ITA in many regions but they are not legal if running Torsen,and additional bracing.
Thanks for reading my nonsense

Greg

Full prep SM is legal in IT. An SM with a ported head is legal in IT, you can even pull the plate. Only big thing that is different is a depowered steering rack.  Final drive/torsen is allowed.  You won't/shouldn't win many races racing IT or STL with an SM but you can indeed race with a ported head.  I posted this in another thread.  ITE open for anything.

[bmw251]

I get it the current rules.. But if they if the new rules do not allow the head prep... Car can not run in STL... It not a little of this and a little of those rules. If you are not SM compliant.. Then you can not run under the stl allowance. We should respect the other groups rules if we want to play with them. The attitude SM is just better leaves a bad taste in others mouths.
I have read other posts talking about if they don't change the rules before the next race people can just run other groups like IT and STL, but I don't see it. If you are illegal why run illegal in those groups, keep the mess within SM

Greg

[mdavis]

Ok… here's the deal….again.  All IT cars (less than 2 liters) can run in STL.  So…. if you have a 99 SM with a (mildly) ported head then you can declare you are running under the ITS ruleset and run in STL.  Same with ITA if you have a 90-97.  Again… you are not running as SM, you are running under the IT ruleset.  (IT rules allow port matching).  As long as you have a PS pump with 2 hoses going to the rack OR a manual rack you are legal to run in IT thus STL.  I'd have to look up the weights but pretty sure ITS weight for a 99 is less than 2400 lbs.

[bmw251]

You can plunge cut in IT? Full blown 1.6 with braces and torsen ARE not legal in IT. Some one ask Andy from FlatOut... He knows IT rules and SM...., pretty sure he has a different take on SM head prep for IT.

[mdavis]

You can plunge cut in IT? Full blown 1.6 with braces and torsen ARE not legal in IT. Some one ask Andy from FlatOut... He knows IT rules and SM...., pretty sure he has a different take on SM head prep for IT.

Agree on the bracing but that is only for a 1.6. I raced IT for 8-9 years before moving over to SM.  Honda, Acura, VW, Mazda.  If anything, head prep is much more open in IT than SM.

[bmw251]

I question the Springfield exhaust .... Doesn't exit the body.....

[pitbull113]

Only mods to cylinder heads in IT are gasket matching the ports and only as deep as one inch from gasket surface. No wording of plunge cut.