27 replies to this topic

[MITCHT]

Not super active in SM this year due to Kids in College and business concerns and Def. a mid pack guy on a good day.

 

But what has happened to SM.

 

Why does the word  PRO- engine have a place in SM.

 

Why does a guy need a racing budget to be in SM.-  3- sets of Sticker tires.

 

Is not the point of this class, low cost, stock engines, stock cars, how could a discussion on spec cars evolve into a discussion of head plunge cuts,  some call this rules creep, but most would  call it pro racing.

 

You either have a SM class or a pro racing class, let the pros, have at it with pro tricks, and race each other.      No place for it in a spec- run what ya brung class.  I know guys will always find a way to cheat, that is why the only engines should be factory or crate mazda engines, or seal and certified engines.    Sure the pro shops would hate this as 5-7k for pro motors is a good money maker.

 

Why are there no 1.6 cars in the top fields anymore?, If it is only weight that separate these cars, ( the 1999 car are better looking, that's it)   this class has become as political as DC, with lobbyist and deal making and tricks up everybody sleeve.  This is not a nascar race with 1m at stake.

 

Who would want to get into this class at this time not knowing what  is expected of them or legal, or allowed or hush, hush everybody is doing it.

 

Simple, stock- Spec Class, lets get this back on track, so the guys who wanted to bring his 8k Miata and race and have fun can, and not say I can't keep up with jones with a 9k motor and 4 sets of new tires for a weekend.  Even formula one regulates sets of tires now but not spec Miata.

 

Maybe two classes, stock and pro, or spec. and pro.,  seems some northern groups already have ssm, which is  closer to the original idea of the class.

 

 

Regards- Flame suit SFI rated on.   Not saying I am 100% right in all of the above but its my opinion and I do not want to have a great thing go by the way side.

 

 

MT

 

 

[Caveman-kwebb99]

that is all fine and dandy but that is not where we are at today unfortuantly things progressed over the years

[Neil O]

On a positive side, no need to buy multiple sets of stickers.  The SM7 was a great change for most racers budget  

[MITCHT]

 SM grew in size and had issues, that were fixed  with band aids and adjustments that in the end made the issue faced today by the class.  No one wanted or foresaw this no one to blame as the parties were doing what they thought was right at the time.

 

Any modification to the head is a modification, it is not spec or stock, if it did not come that way from the factory, so the door was opened and as more folks push thru that door it gets larger, like a valve seat.

 

You can discount, what has happened as progress, but the original rules, did not allow folks to modify an engine in anyway.

[john mueller]

I don't fully agree, the class can govern when intentions are not clouded.  Meaning if someones livelihood is based on the class continuing spending on upgrading to "keep up" and that person (or several) is in a decision making or advisory role an implosion situation exists.

 

I'd love to be making a living off Weekend-Racer.com but it's basically a way for me to buy tires and put fuel in my bigass F150.  So I don't feel that I fit into that group and if I did I'd resign my role within NASA.

[Johnny D]

SM isn't for everyone.

I have friends saying/said the same thing. I suggested SSM, they've never looked back and are happy.

You may want to give it a shot.

J~

[Michael Novak]

Many of the parties involved or being blamed are also the same ones that have worked tirelessly to keep the whole Spec Miata thing going. Without their time and efforts, we would not be here debating with 100's of racers the HP amounts of a 1 mm cleanup. This problem will get fixed and the class will move forward.

Congrats to Mark,Andrew,Brian,Kyle,Tyler and Craig.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Be realistic if the SM class is broken or has been broken for yearsas many say, How in the world can we have the most attented hottestly contested races in both SCCA and Nasa as well as other private clubs.  We must be doing one hell of alot of things right for that to have happened.

 

I would like to take a moment to thank Those that have worked tirelessly over the years and have taken much critisism even from me at times.

 

John Mueller

Ralph Provitz

Jim Drago

Jim Daniels

Mike Collins

Tom Fowler

Dave Wheeler

Wheeler from KCMO

Dan Tiley

Sam Henry

And MANY MANY others that either i cannot remember or came well before my time...

 

I would like to say a personal thank you for helping make this class the best racing in the nation on any level.  You have provided us with some of the best parity even after some mistakes along the way, we should never worry about a mistake we will all make them and many of them what seperates real leaders is what is done to correct the mistakes that will be made as we go.  I truly think and many may disagree of course they has 20/20 hindsight, but these I have listed have done the best they could for the class in the time that they have all served us!  

 

Thank You!

Signed the CaVeMaN

[Johnny D]

       

 

Everyone needs that "DFWMIVFTS" shirt.

J~

[Rob Burgoon]

I thought it was lead poisoning, not self governance that finished off Rome...

[Alex Bolanos]

Not super active in SM this year due to Kids in College and business concerns and Def. a mid pack guy on a good day.

 

But what has happened to SM.

 

Why does the word  PRO- engine have a place in SM.

 

Why does a guy need a racing budget to be in SM.-  3- sets of Sticker tires.

 

Is not the point of this class, low cost, stock engines, stock cars, how could a discussion on spec cars evolve into a discussion of head plunge cuts,  some call this rules creep, but most would  call it pro racing.

 

You either have a SM class or a pro racing class, let the pros, have at it with pro tricks, and race each other.      No place for it in a spec- run what ya brung class.  I know guys will always find a way to cheat, that is why the only engines should be factory or crate mazda engines, or seal and certified engines.    Sure the pro shops would hate this as 5-7k for pro motors is a good money maker.

 

Why are there no 1.6 cars in the top fields anymore?, If it is only weight that separate these cars, ( the 1999 car are better looking, that's it)   this class has become as political as DC, with lobbyist and deal making and tricks up everybody sleeve.  This is not a nascar race with 1m at stake.

 

Who would want to get into this class at this time not knowing what  is expected of them or legal, or allowed or hush, hush everybody is doing it.

 

Simple, stock- Spec Class, lets get this back on track, so the guys who wanted to bring his 8k Miata and race and have fun can, and not say I can't keep up with jones with a 9k motor and 4 sets of new tires for a weekend.  Even formula one regulates sets of tires now but not spec Miata.

 

Maybe two classes, stock and pro, or spec. and pro.,  seems some northern groups already have ssm, which is  closer to the original idea of the class.

 

 

Regards- Flame suit SFI rated on.   Not saying I am 100% right in all of the above but its my opinion and I do not want to have a great thing go by the way side.

 

 

MT

 

Sounds like you should go run IT:  Run what you brung, little tech, no "pro drivers", and a stock Mazda X can trounce a well built Porsche Y depending on the ruleset for that year.

[Alex Bolanos]

On a positive side, no need to buy multiple sets of stickers.  The SM7 was a great change for most racers budget  

 

Please don't inject logic into this guy's post, no one wants to hear about how we spent 50% less money on tires this year in a 1.6 promotion thread.

 

[Johnny D]

SM isn't for everyone.

I have friends saying/said the same thing. I suggested SSM, they've never looked back and are happy.

You may want to give it a shot.

J~

 

Reflecting back on the days, weeks and about the future...

 

I said SM isn't for everyone... is it becoming more the case for more racers, IDK?

Some come in, some leaving for other classes/clubs. We all hope they stay with SCCA or NASA and really within SM but are they more affordable...cough, cough, Champ, LeMons...sure, you get what you pay for..

The increasing comment that my NA isn't competitive. Sure, a lot has to do with the driver.

Limited budgets, I can't afford for someone to check and see if my head is legal.

Not wanting to pony up for a pro built. You have to pay to play, sorry.

This is more regional talk, IMO, but is regional all you can afford and the most attractive for new people coming in, Grass Roots Racing??

I assume everyone hopes, wishes and goals are the Majors, Runoffs and Nats. against to best but is that reality?

https://www.youtube....h?v=SSCzDykng4g

 

Is SM5 the future, Mazda hopes so but...Sealed, spec, how long will that last, IDK?

 

SSM?

A simpler time, cost, rules, competition, class ?

Not that different from SM. Still hanging with the guys telling stories over beers.

I guess will see.

 

Sm is the best class with the best racers, but like someone said, it is pro racing and you need the budget to do it.

So like Selens sings...

https://www.youtube....h?v=n-D1EB74Ckg

Just thinking of what will be.

J~

[LarryKing]

I've stated this opinion previously, I'll reiterate, the demographic of SM has changed. I see plenty of well-funded people joining but very few low-budget people. Whether or not this can sustain the class - time will tell.

 

Again, my personal opinion is that a $30-$40 K investment to be competitive is opposite of the class intent. (It ain't "pro racing", no matter how much we'd like to think it is)

 

I can't completely agree when I read "The class is stronger than ever." Sure, there is phenomenal attendance at select Majors and the Runoffs, and there are also 10-12 car fields at many other events.

 

One thing that really bothers me is the disappearence of many regional events in the Great Lakes Division.

[Jim Drago]

I've stated this opinion previously, I'll reiterate, the demographic of SM has changed. I see plenty of well-funded people joining but very few low-budget people. Whether or not this can sustain the class - time will tell.
 
Again, my personal opinion is that a $30-$40 K investment to be competitive is opposite of the class intent. (It ain't "pro racing", no matter how much we'd like to think it is)
 
I can't completely agree when I read "The class is stronger than ever." Sure, there is phenomenal attendance at select Majors and the Runoffs, and there are also 10-12 car fields at many other events.
 
One thing that really bothers me is the disappearance of many regional events in the Great Lakes Division.

I would agree with ALL of these points!

Not sure how we could have changed the escalating costs. SM is/was a victim of its own success. That is what drove up the numbers and competition, the costs and prep shops followed. Even with benefit of hindsight, I don't see a way that we could have kept the costs of these cars at 10-12k.
Jim

[pat slattery]

The introduction of new model years over the past 10 years in SM, has certainly  escalated the cost and obsoleted many model years and eliminated those racers for monetary reasons

[Caveman-kwebb99]

.

 

Again, my personal opinion is that a $30-$40 K investment to be competitive is opposite of the class intent. (It ain't "pro racing", no matter how much we'd like to think it is)

 

 

 

One thing that really bothers me is the disappearence of many regional events in the Great Lakes Division.

 

I fully agree I wish we could make an initial investment in the class of 10k or less and be competitive, but even when i got into the class it was well north of 30k.

 

Events go away for multiple reason ultimatly it gets blamed on attendance many of us stop attending for different reasons from poorly organized, poorly teched.  I personally stopped attending based on many of your comments about $$$ spent to be competitve I did not want to feel like I was making YOU or anyone else at the regionals feel like they needed to spend more.  I have returned to a couple of Mid ohio regionals in 2014 and found very competitive well run events and had the time of my life running old tires as my competitors stickered up...  

 

The class seems healthy to me full fields every where I go, but that doesnt mean it will just automatically stay that way.

[HoneyBadger - BrianW]

I've stated this opinion previously, I'll reiterate, the demographic of SM has changed. I see plenty of well-funded people joining but very few low-budget people. Whether or not this can sustain the class - time will tell.

 

Again, my personal opinion is that a $30-$40 K investment to be competitive is opposite of the class intent. (It ain't "pro racing", no matter how much we'd like to think it is)

 

I can't completely agree when I read "The class is stronger than ever." Sure, there is phenomenal attendance at select Majors and the Runoffs, and there are also 10-12 car fields at many other events.

 

One thing that really bothers me is the disappearence of many regional events in the Great Lakes Division.

I think we all get that this isn't pro racing... but I don't think that $30-$40K will get you very far in pro racing. I think that leaves a pretty big gap in racing budget. My opinion is that the 10K racing budget is more along the lines of Chumpcar or WRL racing.

[Jim Drago]

The introduction of new model years over the past 10 years in SM, has certainly  escalated the cost and obsoleted many model years and eliminated those racers for monetary reasons

The costs would be the same whether the class was 90-97 or 90/05. It is arguable that the introduction of the newer cars obsoleted the older ones, but the costs are not arguable IMO.

[LarryKing]

It seems most agree that the escalation in cost was and is inevitable. So what possible reason would there be to NOT allow the modifications that are currently non-compliant?