Jump to content

Photo

Rule change for 1.6 intake?

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
373 replies to this topic

#21
Ron Alan

Ron Alan

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,732 posts
  • Location:Northern CA
  • Car Year:1995

..

 

  Looking forward to renting a Gen3 SRF next year!

Blasphemy! 


  • Bruce Wilson likes this

Ron

RAmotorsports

 

Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#22
Bruce Wilson

Bruce Wilson

    Gold Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 663 posts
  • Region:Oregon
  • Car Year:1991
  • Car Number:68

The only thing that fixes the 1.6 is more torque!  This was clearly exhibited at the Majors at one of the best 1.6 favored tracks in the country (flat with long straights).  Matt Schultz and my 1.6 took top(ish) qualifying times both sessions but during the race we were picked off one by one until we were at the back of the front group.  Currently, the only way to win in a 1.6 is to qualify on pole and run away on lap 1 (tall order for sure).  Now add some hills and short straights and forget it...

 

ECU's or 1.8 engines swaps are the only answer.  

 

Needs to be said again at the top of this page (minus my blasphemous remark ) :)


I have an opinion so I must be right

Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Survivalist - Won 25 Hours at Thunderhill! We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#23
Bruce Wilson

Bruce Wilson

    Gold Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 663 posts
  • Region:Oregon
  • Car Year:1991
  • Car Number:68

Tuned and SEALED Megasquirt ECU could be an answer.  Somebody get on that real quick  :wacko:


I have an opinion so I must be right

Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Survivalist - Won 25 Hours at Thunderhill! We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#24
Ron Alan

Ron Alan

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,732 posts
  • Location:Northern CA
  • Car Year:1995

How about a 1.6 class  :duck:


  • Qik Nip, Aaron Pettipas and ECOBRAP like this

Ron

RAmotorsports

 

Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#25
Bruce Wilson

Bruce Wilson

    Gold Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 663 posts
  • Region:Oregon
  • Car Year:1991
  • Car Number:68

Retiring all those cars that brought this class to be the top attended class in the SCCA doesn't sound like a great plan to me.


  • Aaron Pettipas likes this

I have an opinion so I must be right

Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Survivalist - Won 25 Hours at Thunderhill! We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#26
ECOBRAP

ECOBRAP

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 405 posts
  • Location:Bay Area, CA
  • Region:Nor Cal
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:59

How about a 1.6 class  :duck:

I am working on it for our region don't you worry Ron  :glare:


-Ecobrap

We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#27
Steve Scheifler

Steve Scheifler

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,816 posts
OK, have we confirmed again that there are no easy solutions to help the 1.6 with what it needs most? We can kick those around all season and I'll gladly help test ideas, but with a very narrow window left for 2015 changes can we do one tiny thing to keep it from getting slower late in the race?

Allowing removal of the left front turn indicator is about as cheap and uncorruptable as a rule change could be. As shown in the picture below, it would be best to also allow removal of that side headlight, opening up the passage to the engine compartment. Screen replacement cover optional, no new ducting allowed.

Do you see any issues with this proposal? Can we get behind it and send letters to the CRB? I know people are still wound up with bigger issues but there is no time left if anything is to be done for next season.

http://specmiataclas...y;sa=view;id=55
Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record.

#28
B(Kuch)Kucera45

B(Kuch)Kucera45

    Veteran Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 568 posts
  • Location:Idependence
  • Region:NEOhio
  • Car Year:1991
  • Car Number:45

OK, have we confirmed again that there are no easy solutions to help the 1.6 with what it needs most? We can kick those around all season and I'll gladly help test ideas, but with a very narrow window left for 2015 changes can we do one tiny thing to keep it from getting slower late in the race?
Allowing removal of the left front turn indicator is about as cheap and uncorruptable as a rule change could be. As shown in the picture below, it would be best to also allow removal of that side headlight, opening up the passage to the engine compartment. Screen replacement cover optional, no new ducting allowed.
Do you see any issues with this proposal? Can we get behind it and send letters to the CRB? I know people are still wound up with bigger issues but there is no time left if anything is to be done for next season.http://specmiataclas...y;sa=view;id=55


I'm fine with trying anything at this point. The biggest issue I see with this is trying to simulate tuneing on a dyno. It's kind of like when I was racing bikes. It's kind of like a ram air system and hard to get the right amount of air flow while on the dyno witch will be diff.when the car is moving witch will affect your air fuel ratio.
Kuch
Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other

#29
MPR22

MPR22

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,138 posts
  • Location:Houston
  • Region:Southwest
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:22

I'm not a motor guy so I honestly have no idea if what I am asking is stupid or not...... However, here goes....

 

Piggyback ECU for the 1.6?  Header?

Anyone test the header?  I know some run PTE with a header any idea what the gains are?


Shattering - For those who cant drink tequila NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner Majors Winner - Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Donor - Made PayPal donation

#30
RacerX

RacerX

    Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPip
  • 94 posts
  • Location:Fairfax, VA
  • Region:WDC
  • Car Year:1991
  • Car Number:51

How about a 1.6 class  :duck:

 

SSM



#31
Bruce Wilson

Bruce Wilson

    Gold Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 663 posts
  • Region:Oregon
  • Car Year:1991
  • Car Number:68

Steve, I don't see the benefit.  Remove weight, cold air, whatever... then 1.6s will qualify on the pole every time and get passed as soon as the racing starts.  It's definitely not an easy fix, which is why my car is parked until a solution is found.  I love SM, been racing since 2003, but I'm not building another car, so a solution needs to be found or just restart the class with 99+, but I'll bet the fields will never look the same again.  Miata is probably the best production racecar ever built and deserves better than this.  Why can't we find a solution that makes 15 year old cars competitive with 20 year old cars?  Because nobody is trying hard enough, that's why :)


  • B(Kuch)Kucera45, Adax and ECOBRAP like this

I have an opinion so I must be right

Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Survivalist - Won 25 Hours at Thunderhill! We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#32
Steve Scheifler

Steve Scheifler

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,816 posts

Bruce, I've run against the 99+ so I get it, but I also know that my lap times fall off more than theirs, and if anything it should be the other way around given the weight difference.

And I think the 1.6 can compete now at some tracks, assuming all are within the rules. Let's get what we can right now, try to solve at least one problem if we can, and see how things shake out next season with stricter tech. Meanwhile I'm willing to dyno test other options and gather data for more meaningful changes next season if they are warranted and effective.
Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record.

#33
B(Kuch)Kucera45

B(Kuch)Kucera45

    Veteran Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 568 posts
  • Location:Idependence
  • Region:NEOhio
  • Car Year:1991
  • Car Number:45

Steve, I don't see the benefit.  Remove weight, cold air, whatever... then 1.6s will qualify on the pole every time and get passed as soon as the racing starts.  It's definitely not an easy fix, which is why my car is parked until a solution is found.  I love SM, been racing since 2003, but I'm not building another car, so a solution needs to be found or just restart the class with 99+, but I'll bet the fields will never look the same again.  Miata is probably the best production racecar ever built and deserves better than this.  Why can't we find a solution that makes 15 year old cars competitive with 20 year old cars?  Because nobody is trying hard enough, that's why :)


Bruce I agree with you but there are a lot of guys out there that don't believe this is true.
There is plenty of people out there doing the same thing weather it's at a Nat.or Reg. Level. What some of these sanctions ( scca,nasa ect...) don't understand is that it's not only affecting us it's affecting them as well. I don't care what level ( Nat.or Reg.) it's at if we don't show to a race because of a parity issue they lose as well ( money ). I don't know about you but if I was running a business I want as many people as I can get to come to me. I don't car if it's a 2 year old car or a 20 year old car it's money !
Kuch
Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other

#34
Bruce Wilson

Bruce Wilson

    Gold Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 663 posts
  • Region:Oregon
  • Car Year:1991
  • Car Number:68

Don't believe what is true?  The NW is the last holdout of the 1.6 top prepped cars with drivers that are capable of winning a Majors or even a national championship.  All of those cars are parked at the moment.  Some of them ran Sean's 99s or built a 99 but kept their 1.6s.  I know that mid pack and near front pack people love the added HP and less weight, but to relegate the 1.6 to a no-win category is a situation that not in the cards for any of those drivers.  I don't see any other empirical data to support any other conclusion.  By the way, if a 1.6 was going to win, Pacific Raceways and Portland would be the model tracks, which is why the NW was the last to fall for the 1.6s.


I have an opinion so I must be right

Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Survivalist - Won 25 Hours at Thunderhill! We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#35
Bruce Wilson

Bruce Wilson

    Gold Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 663 posts
  • Region:Oregon
  • Car Year:1991
  • Car Number:68

Steve, I guess I believe that an incremental, concessional change, like those made in the past will only further marginalize the 1.6 in SM.  The changes in the past were obviously insufficient, and so will any incremental change made in haste the last week before the rules are announced.  There will be those who say that the STR will change the disparity, but that's not true either.  We only had one or two cars in the NW that were running those heads, and they weren't piloted by Majors podium capable drivers.


I have an opinion so I must be right

Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Survivalist - Won 25 Hours at Thunderhill! We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#36
Steve Scheifler

Steve Scheifler

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,816 posts
Bruce, you sound a little like me talking about allowing a lighter flywheel. I'd take it if offered, but it is of very little real value and my fear is that it would reduce the likelihood of getting anything meaningful.

But this is different in two important ways. It is a FREE 10 minute job, and it should be a part of any bigger solution (other than a complete 1.8 swap). The latter should be stated as part of the request, and the reason to do it now is so it's included in any data gathered during the season for considering the next move. If it isn't allowed then any other adjustments are still of limited value because the 1.6 lays down after a few laps. Let's at least reduce that if we can.
Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record.

#37
Bruce Wilson

Bruce Wilson

    Gold Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 663 posts
  • Region:Oregon
  • Car Year:1991
  • Car Number:68

Guys I have no problem with you trying to throw the 1.6 a bone, but don't let anyone tell you guys that's going to be enough without real data from the top step on the podium. I never want to hear lap times being quoted again!!!


I have an opinion so I must be right

Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Survivalist - Won 25 Hours at Thunderhill! We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#38
Protech

Protech

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts
  • Region:FL - Florida
  • Car Year:2011
  • Car Number:131

The 1.6 needs compression to add torque. 040 off the head would be close. Now you need cam wheels to get the cam timing back to near spec.

  Add a header. 

 Open the plate up for the NA 1.8.

 The SMAC job 1 should be  to keep the NA cars competitive.



#39
Bench Racer

Bench Racer

    Different strokes for different folks : )

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,508 posts
  • Location:Wauwatosa, WI
  • Region:Milwaukee
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:14

Please don't take this post wrong, I'm all for flipping some bones to the 1.6. And don't anyone start talking any 99 pieces unless it's the 99 engine. :bigsquaregrin:

 

When a fully preped ITA 1.6 car shows up at a track near you, what are the lap times compared to the fast Spec Miata times?

 

Fully preped ITA car, were talking shocks, springs, bars, ITA pro motor (compression ratio 9.4:1), Mega Squirt, header, diff gear, tires and on and on. Oh, and the driver is no slouch.

Example to me is, a very capabile driver in a well preped car at Blackhawk Farm can not equal the Majors level Spec Miata lap time. Together with Voytek (SM) they put on one hell of a race to watch.


Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#40
pat slattery

pat slattery

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 724 posts
  • Location:Cincinnati
  • Region:Cincinnati
  • Car Year:1992
  • Car Number:79

Here I thought the 99 drivers were just better drivers, Are you guys saying not so?  :)


  • Qik Nip likes this



 

Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users