Jump to content

Photo

Do you know Jack ?? Really I don't make this stuff up.

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
52 replies to this topic

#21
Zauskycop

Zauskycop

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 250 posts
  • Location:Hinckley IL
  • Region:Chicago
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:45

Chicago Region has had a PDX program for the last...5??...years that is *remarkably* very similar to track night.   And it is a huge success!   Typically we are, or very close to, selling out events on our schedule (6 nights a year).    We only allow passing on ONE (novice) or TWO (Intermediate/advanced) straights and ONLY with a waveby.  We even dictate which side you can pass on!! 

 

There is no need for head/neck restraint, nor physical, nor a license.   It is a VERY safe program and in the 5 years we have run, have never had metal to metal contact.   A couple incidents but they have always (oddly) been in the advanced group with drivers who have run out of talent.

 

It's a great program that WE have, and not sure how Track Night will proceed.   Chicago Region, however, will not be participating in the National version.   Ours is doing just fine, thank you.


Tracy Ramsey
45 SM
Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#22
Butch Kummer

Butch Kummer

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 178 posts
  • Location:Atlanta GA
  • Region:Atlanta

I'm no longer in a leadership position within Atlanta Region (or any other SCCA entity), but since 2006 Atlanta has been holding PDX sessions to take advantage of the 10-noon Quiet Time mandated by the county for every event at Road Atlanta. It was originally conceived as an incentive for workers (free sessions), but it quickly became apparent others were willing to pay for the track time. Like the Chicago Region sessions, they have been very successful with very few (maybe two?) incidents over the years.

 

Most successful regions recognize they constantly need to recruit new participants in order to survive, but I'm guessing TNiA is an attempt to kick-start the efforts of those that may be "less enlightened". Apparently there's also a grant from the FIA that's helping with the program funding (notice the FIA logo on the literature). In addition, participating in the TNiA program allows Atlanta Region to run events at Atlanta Motorsports Park, which has very strict sound restrictions and therefore is unsuitable for Club Racing. It also allows SCCA to present its message to another group of enthusiasts, plus alleviate concerns of those that might have issues with the "concrete canyon" that many professional tracks have become.


Butch Kummer

Former SCCA Director of Club Racing (2012-2014)


#23
screaming monkey

screaming monkey

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 100 posts
  • Location:madison
  • Region:WI
  • Car Year:1995
  • Car Number:29

I applaud any effort to shake car enthusiasts out of the trees. I was at a race at BHF a couple years ago and passed a corvette club gathering on my way to the track...less than 5 miles away. They had no clue there was an event going on right down the street. Those are the kind of people that this is perfect for. Cars and coffee crowd, cruise night crowd, (insert favorite car here) club crowd. Bring em' all to the track!!!  Maybe, if nothing else, we'll start to see more people watching our weekend events. Always fun to have a crowd in the stands :)


  • Alberto likes this
Richard Scott Mooney
Humble student of racing

#24
Walter Vetter

Walter Vetter

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,199 posts

 

no need for head/neck restraint

 

What was the estimated velocity delta when Earnhardt hit the wall at Daytona?

 

What are the odds that a Track Night hero gets in over their head?

 

What is the SCCA's explosure to liability for not requiring a HANS


Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#25
Bench Racer

Bench Racer

    Different strokes for different folks : )

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,562 posts
  • Location:Wauwatosa, WI
  • Region:Milwaukee
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:14

Thank you ^.


Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#26
Tom Hampton

Tom Hampton

    Egregious Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,571 posts
  • Location:Mckinney, tx
  • Region:South west
  • Car Year:1992
  • Car Number:41

What was the estimated velocity delta when Earnhardt hit the wall at Daytona?

 

What are the odds that a Track Night hero gets in over their head?

 

What is the SCCA's explosure to liability for not requiring a HANS

 

Instead of being obtuse, why don't you just state the facts?

 

Ground speed = 155 mph

velocity vector angle with wall = 13.6 degrees

heading angle with wall = 55 degrees

deceleration = 45 mph in 80ms

estimated max Gs = ~70g

 

 

Do you exceed 45 mph on your way to work?

Do you drive past any concrete or similarly hard structures (pillars, walls, k-rail, trees, etc)?

Do you drive on any undivided roads faster than 25 mph?

Do you where a HNR, and related safety equipment on your way to work? 

 

If NOT, what are the odds that YOU will experience a basal skull facture or other speed related fatality (due to insufficient safety equipment) some day while driving on public roads? 

What is your and every other insurance companies liability exposure for the general public during daily driving?

 

Apparently we should all have 6-pt harnesses, helments, and HNR devices in order to drive to the grocery store. 

 

Have you done a PDX with straights-only passing, and zero tolerance for 2-wheel offs, recently?  I have and I honestly can't think of a safer driving experience (I feel a hell of a lot safer than I do getting to/from the track or work for that matter). 

 

I don't know of a single PDX that requires an HNR.  Most of the ones I know even allow SHORTS and T-SHIRTS.  And somehow they manage to not get sued out of existence. 


-tch
Build: www.tomhampton.info

video: vimeo.com/tomhampton

Support: X-Factor Racing

 

I didn't lose, I just got outspent!

Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#27
Walter Vetter

Walter Vetter

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,199 posts

My point is it's foolish to think "it can't happen."

 

Is this less obtuse?:

 

Sunday, June 8, 2014

 

SUMMIT POINT, W.Va. — An instructor at Summit Point Motorsports Park in Jefferson County, W.Va., died over the weekend when a car on the track careened off a curve. The instructor was a passenger in a 2006 Pontiac GTO driven by someone Saturday as part of the HyperFest event, according to Sgt. Robert Sell of the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department.

 
HyperFest allows amateur drivers to take their own vehicles onto the track with a National Auto Sport Association driver in the passenger seat, Sell said.

 

Sell said first-responders were called to the raceway southwest of Charles Town, W.Va., at about 5:20 p.m. A deputy coroner already was at the track when the collision occurred. The car was traveling around a sharp left turn when the driver lost control of the vehicle, Sell said. It went across a grassy area and struck a tree, he said. Authorities have not yet released the occupants' names.

 

Sell said the driver was treated at Winchester (Va.) Medical Center for injuries that were not life-threatening. "We are not looking at charges against the driver," he said. "It was simply an accident (related to) speed. "The crash on the 1.12-mile Jefferson Circuit occurred during the last session of HyperFest, Sell said. A woman who answered the phone at the raceway Sunday said the incident was being investigated and the business had no comment.


Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#28
mhiggins10

mhiggins10

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 180 posts
  • Location:Houston
  • Region:SOWDIV
  • Car Year:1990

What was the estimated velocity delta when Earnhardt hit the wall at Daytona?

 

What are the odds that a Track Night hero gets in over their head?

 

What is the SCCA's explosure to liability for not requiring a HANS

 

 

Thank you ^.

 

I really wish you guys would quit beating around the bush and just ask how SCCA intends to handle any increased liability from this type of event. (if that is, in fact, your concern).

 

Were I to take a guess, I would think that insurance companies generally don't know shit about motorsports and don't think to ask these types of detailed questions.  I would also bet that their actuaries aren't comparing risk the risks of the lesser safety requirements and stricter driving condition of HPDEs to that of wheel-to-wheel racing with more safety gear, with less restriction and generally higher cornering speeds.

 

If you're worried about your entry fees going up, just ask if they will.  Seems a simple thing to me.


Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#29
Bench Racer

Bench Racer

    Different strokes for different folks : )

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,562 posts
  • Location:Wauwatosa, WI
  • Region:Milwaukee
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:14

No beating around the bush by me.

 

I sent a letter to my BoD guy approx two weeks ago before posting here asking the same questions I asked on this site. To date, no response.


Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#30
Johnny D

Johnny D

    Veteran Member

  • Moderators
  • 5,256 posts
  • Location:Fremont, CA
  • Region:San Francisco
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:88

I agree this could be very successful. As I mentioned the club that runs this every month is full every time, even kind of hard keeping the race run group going because another group could fill it.

 

Most of the time it goes well, some times you get a red flag, (roll over) They have to sign a release.

 

I have a question...

Do all these tracks have lights?

Thunderhill does not.

The event goes until 9p, it get dark around 7ish.

 

J~


2011 NASA Western Endurance Racing Championship E3 Champ
We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#31
Bench Racer

Bench Racer

    Different strokes for different folks : )

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,562 posts
  • Location:Wauwatosa, WI
  • Region:Milwaukee
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:14

Most of the time it goes well, some times you get a red flag, (roll over) They have to sign a release.

J~

We all sign a SCCA release every time we road race our cars. From reading the release it would seem we sign away everything including the family jewels. How legitimate the release is I wouldn't have a clue.


Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#32
Zauskycop

Zauskycop

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 250 posts
  • Location:Hinckley IL
  • Region:Chicago
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:45

The point about not having HNR is possibly a valid one, but I also agree that the same thing could happen in a head on collision going down the highway...which are probably higher speeds than most people will achieve at a track.

 

But here is an honest question...  

 

Does the fact that most people during a PDX  wear regular seat belts (not nearly as tight as racing belts) reduce the possibility of a basal skull fracture?   How about airbags?


Tracy Ramsey
45 SM
Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#33
Walter Vetter

Walter Vetter

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,199 posts

I'm not an attorney but I bet a good one could take the release we all sign and shred it to little pieces in a courtroom. (probably the death of club racing, track days, etc.)


Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#34
Johnny D

Johnny D

    Veteran Member

  • Moderators
  • 5,256 posts
  • Location:Fremont, CA
  • Region:San Francisco
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:88

Can the sharks stop circling.

J~


2011 NASA Western Endurance Racing Championship E3 Champ
We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#35
Tom Hampton

Tom Hampton

    Egregious Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,571 posts
  • Location:Mckinney, tx
  • Region:South west
  • Car Year:1992
  • Car Number:41

baaaaaaa...dump!   baaaaaaaaa....dump!  baaaaa...dump! Baaa...dump! Baa...dump!  Ba...dump! Ba...dump! Ba, dump, ba, dump, ba, dump..!!!!


-tch
Build: www.tomhampton.info

video: vimeo.com/tomhampton

Support: X-Factor Racing

 

I didn't lose, I just got outspent!

Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#36
Johnny D

Johnny D

    Veteran Member

  • Moderators
  • 5,256 posts
  • Location:Fremont, CA
  • Region:San Francisco
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:88

https://www.youtube....h?v=ZvCI-gNK_y4
J~


2011 NASA Western Endurance Racing Championship E3 Champ
We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#37
Johnny D

Johnny D

    Veteran Member

  • Moderators
  • 5,256 posts
  • Location:Fremont, CA
  • Region:San Francisco
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:88

Track Night Pricing

Standard Entry: $150

SCCA SafeRacer First Gear Entry (age 24 and under): $125

Active Miliatry Entry: $125

Entry with a new SCCA membership: $200  (this doesn't mean if you are a SCCA member it cost you $200) :)

Entry with a Bell Sport Mag Helmet: $275

Entry with a Bell Sport Helmet: $400

Entry with a Bell Sport Mag Helmet and a new SCCA Membership: $325

Entry with a Bell Sport Helmet and a new SCCA Membership: $450


All Track Night Entries include three 20 minute sessions on track


2011 NASA Western Endurance Racing Championship E3 Champ
We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#38
Walter Vetter

Walter Vetter

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,199 posts
OK, track nights look like fun. I'd probably participate if there was a closer venue and it wasn't a 'school night'.
Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#39
Andy Mitchell

Andy Mitchell

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 55 posts
  • Location:Nova Scotia, Canada
  • Region:Atlantic Canada
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:78

Man, talk about some familiar issues!

 

In my area most racers would do just about anything to try to bring new people into the sport. But the jump in commitment from track days to real racing is still pretty big... you need a Hans, suit, real belts, cage, etc. to go racing, whereas you can just go out and whiz around with your buddies in your shirt sleeves and 15 year old lap belts at a track day, and have what probably seems to be almost as good a time to the uninitiated. It's easy and fun, and up here track days are growing way faster than our race grids.

 

So, is this a good thing? I don't know. It's not bad (at least until the street car hordes start squeezing us out of race dates) but I don't think the conversion rate to 'real racer' from stuff like this is as high as everyone would like.

 

Anyway, good luck to the SCCA! If figure out the magic formula needed, it'll be good for all of us.


Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#40
wheel

wheel

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 788 posts
  • Location:Kansas City
  • Region:KC
  • Car Year:1992
  • Car Number:20

There are racers and there are guys who like to go fast and do burnouts and have loud exhausts and yada yada yada.  The number of racers is finite.  Hopefully, the new entry level places for people to play with fast cars will strike a cord with those who might become racers.   With real racers, the time, money, failed relationships, money, money, money---- none of it matters.  We have to race.

wheel

 

p.s. all SCCA events are cleared through, and covered by, the SCCA insurance policies.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users