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I wish the officials were held to the same standard we are

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#1
Johnny D

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"Can you imagine if we enforced the rules on them to letter as written as they do to us? There are not enough nuns in the world with rulers to slap the hands of the officials for the number of infractions they make over and over with no recourse or consequence..."

So could this really happen ??

Would we end up waving our own flag and working the corners because they said F this sh!t or they got suspended ??

Or like they do to us, they'll bitch about for a while and then get over it and do what's asked of them.

Just asking  :)

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#2
Mike Collins

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I protest officials all the time... I routinely win...nothing happens.


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#3
Johnny D

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So how do you get something to happen, then?

 

Can't really take them out back and give them an attitude adjustment.

J~


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#4
Tom Sager

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Ya know I try to lean in favor of the volunteer workers.  Unless somebody is going out of their way to be difficult or incompetent, it's hard to be overly critical.  Most events are run very well.  Certainly we want events to run smoothly and without incident but we aren't always that fortunate.  Incidents like the VIR start last weekend really are unfortunate.  Both SCCA and NASA in my view put on very good events and when there is a breakdown, there is usually an effort to correct it going forward.  As a class our big numbers and close competition put some stress on the system but as a group we do bring on some of the trouble ourselves.    


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#5
Tom Sager

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I protest officials all the time... I routinely win...nothing happens.

You only think you won :).  


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#6
Tom Hampton

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You only think you won :).  

 

I'm with Tom.  If nothing changed, then you did NOT win.  Your were placated.  


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#7
Johnny D

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Everyone makes mistakes, fine, but not too many right ??

How about keep track and have the 3 strikes rule.

Then it's "we no longer require your services" good job though, here have a cookie.
J~
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#8
Bench Racer

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Everyone makes mistakes, fine, but not too many right ??

How about keep track and have the 3 strikes rule.

Then it's "we no longer require your services" good job though, here have a cookie.
J~

 

With the thousands of crash damage as at VIR, some things as in un-safe track should not be tolerated.

 

They can have their SCCA license played with similar to ours. Except, like Mike stated, don't hold your breath.


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#9
LarryKing

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Are you serious ???

 

In the SCCA at least the workers are unpaid volunteers. (You all knew that)

 

We should be kissing their left nut for volunteering 'cause without them playtime is over.

 

Favorite shirt seen worn by worker: "DFWMIVFTS"  (bet you can figure it out)

 

(Guess what - there ain't no waiting list to be able to work races)


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#10
Bench Racer

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Walter, kissing ass volunteer for this shit aside, would these same volunteer folks expect Pro teams/drivers to race on an un-safe track as was at VIR. NASA seems to get the job done with I presume paid corner workers.


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#11
Johnny D

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Do we want quality or quantity ??

Ok, define volunteer...
Free lunch, Breakfast or dinner too ??
Lodging ?
Gas ?

So since we sign our life away entering gates, nobodies going to sue for negligence if somebody really gets hurt ?

Just asking.
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#12
LarryKing

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So suspend them, give them a time out, make them stand in the corner, tell them to go away... then good luck finding someone to replace them.

 

In my area the same people who volunteer for SCCA also work NASA events. My point being there is a very finite supply of good workers. (I've witnessed NASA to have numerous empty flagstands. NOT COOL)

 

No one is forcing you to walk through the gates.


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#13
Johnny D

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I heard Jack Track is the Man!! and knows a bunch of people that could work the weekend in return for free track time at his event. :)

I won't say it.

J~


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#14
LarryKing

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Jack Track is the Man!! and knows a bunch of people that could work the weekend in return for free track time at his event

 

And that makes them qualified workers how?


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#15
Johnny D

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Just assuming you have a bad apple or 2, that need replacing.

J~


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#16
Johnny D

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If they did a track they know the flags now.

Sorry, I'm supplying ideas and possible warm bodies, you guys will have to do the rest.

Assuming there's an issue in the 1st place.

J~


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#17
Andy Mitchell

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Hey guys, at least up here in my corner of the world volunteer corner workers = salt of the earth. They stand out in the rain, take orders without question/complaint and are your best friend when you do have an incident. But there's another class of volunteers that aren't quite so unselfish in their motives. Up here, the higher levels in the volunteer worker hierarchy (like starters) are mostly either retired racers or Walter Mitty types that always wished they'd raced but never really had the nuts to do so. They can be 'difficult'. So I've got no problem knocking the uppty-up types, but lay off the corner workers!   :)  


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#18
Jim Drago

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Ya know I try to lean in favor of the volunteer workers.  Unless somebody is going out of their way to be difficult or incompetent, it's hard to be overly critical.  Most events are run very well.  Certainly we want events to run smoothly and without incident but we aren't always that fortunate.  Incidents like the VIR start last weekend really are unfortunate.  Both SCCA and NASA in my view put on very good events and when there is a breakdown, there is usually an effort to correct it going forward.  As a class our big numbers and close competition put some stress on the system but as a group we do bring on some of the trouble ourselves.    

99% of the time I agree with this.

But there are times where whether they are volunteers or not, they should be fired. :(  Being a volunteer should not excuse anyone from doing a good job and being competent in what they are doing. 


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#19
davew

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I would really like to say this better than this, but I don't have the time to get the PC detector working.

 

I can live with entry level workers making mistakes. They are volunteers and put up with a lot of stuff so we can play with toy cars.

 

When someone is in an authority position, Steward, Chief of something, decision maker, rules enforcer or rule maker, they need to be held to a higher standard. With authority comes responsibility. With responsibility comes accountability. Something should happen.

 

I believe the Steward that allowed the June Sprints fiasco of a few years ago was demoted within the Stewards program. He may not even be a Steward anymore. But I may be wrong.


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#20
MazdaSteve

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I see both perspectives as I play on the corner as a flagger and on the track in my Spec Miata when time and money permits. Couple observations:

 

1. The last thing any SCCA volunteer, whether it be F&C, Steward or EV wants to see, is a competitor get hurt or have their equipment torn up. We are all at the track to have fun and pursue our passion.

 

2. The majority of us that work on the corners for SCCA Majors and regional events also flag pro events such as Grand AM, Tudor, Pirelli World Challenge, Indycar and F1. Typically the only difference at the pro level is that Race Control and EV are paid staff that travels with the series.

 

3. SCCA and NASA have had to compensate flaggers with a stipend towards gas money to have enough flaggers show up and staff the minimal amount of corners to allow us to play with race cars. It is a slippery slope. Remember that every unmanned flag station represents a potential flag that could have benefitted you, and an increased response time to come to your assistance when "Fit hits the Shan".

 

4. VIR does not allow SCCA workers to flag at pro events. Did you see their "paid" staff almost have a Porsche GT3 land in their lap at T7 during the Tudor race a few years back? Or what about the "pro" EV truck that ran counter race during the Indycar event in Baltimore? Or NASCAR throwing the green flag at Charlotte during the BofA 500 while there were still pickup trucks with workers out of their vehicles on the back straight? My point is, we all make mistakes, even the "pros". Jules Bianchi may not be in a coma today if F1 Race Control had decided to red flag the Japanese Grand Prix a few laps sooner than it actually did.

 

5. The Flag Chiefs go a long way to staff their turns with seasoned Corner Captains. At VIR we had no less than 5 Flag Chiefs on staff from NCR and other regions this past weekend. These guys have forgotten more about flagging than a lot of us will know. Inevitably there will be rookie flaggers on turns for both Majors and regional events - that's how we get new blood and attract people to the club. But Corner Captains never leave newbs unattended. Someone is always right with them to mentor, to tell them to get the flag up, where to be looking, etc. Volunteers who don't have what it takes to work a corner are strongly "encouraged" to pursue other volunteer opportunities within the club. We understand what is at stake.

 

6. The majority of the flaggers I know are passionate, responsible and continually try to improve their racecraft.


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