111 replies to this topic

[Lee Thomas]

Side hits are worst, HANS does all but nothing in those instances.

I don't know if you recall but I asked your advice on buying a full-halo seat after my crash at Road Atlanta in July. I bought that seat and I think it saved my life…or save me from a lot more injuries. Luckily I had just leaned my head back into the seat and my head smashed up against the halo on impact. I don't think a side net would have provided the same level of protection. That seat is now bent, twisted and heading for the scrap bin.

If anyone is roadracing without a full halo seat, you are taking a risk that is just not worth it.

Looking forward to buying my next one…

[LarryKing]

Lee's video is all the evidence anyone needs to support the importance of keeping all safety gear ON until you are in the paddock.

[trimless]

Lee, what seat did you buy? Just curious.

[Lee Thomas]

Lee, what seat did you buy? Just curious.

UltraShield RoadRace Halo 3

[Jim Drago]

UltraShield RoadRace Halo 3

Lee
I actually use the Kirkey economy road race seat. ( The economy bc it fits better in a miata). It is full containment and VERY strong! I don't sell these seats, but highly recommend them. They are extremely strong and well built. I have them in all my cars, and my guys liked them so much, all have switched to them as well.

It looks like your seat did a great job! That is all that matters.


On Hans comment, I was referring to Lee, as he was hit in side. It definitely helped Willie and likely saved him from far worse injury

[Pat Ross]

Jim,

 

I agree with you that the HANS didn't help Lee because of the direction of the force exerted by Willie's impact.  I was just reinforcing how lucky we are to have these safety devices when we need them even though they might be a pain in the a** at times.  If Dale E. had been wearing one he would most likely still be with us.

 

Pat

[suck fumes]

Dale also used to unbuckle his shoulder belts and throw them off. Plus using an open face helmet didn't help either.

[Mark McCallister]

That is a terrifying crash, I am glad to hear both are on the mend, though it sounds like it will be a long recovery - I hope it goes as well & quickly as it can.  Let's hear it for the system of safety devices we have to choose from today.

[MPR22]

Anyone have video of Sunday's race?   

[Steve Scheifler]

Jim,

... If Dale E. had been wearing one he would most likely still be with us.

Pat

That seems to have been largely debunked, not that it matters either way, just tired of reading/hearing it.

No doubt the H&N restraints are a plus in many instances, but also no doubt that they are increasingly over-credited. If every person who felt certain that theirs has saved their life or neck was correct, then without them we would have seen at least a 1000 fold sudden increase in death and serious injury in this sport. Might be interesting to compile *real* data and try to factor in other changes that have taken place concurrently. Then at least we can get back to the ever popular "if it saves just one..." and start contemplating the potential value of wearing the Michelin Man suit and enforcing speed limits.

Not saying they shouldn't be required, just saying that a good thing should be able to stand on the facts, not hype or emotional over-attribution.

[MPR22]

That seems to have been largely debunked, not that it matters either way, just tired of reading/hearing it.

No doubt the H&N restraints are a plus in many instances, but also no doubt that they are increasingly over-credited. If every person who felt certain that theirs has saved their life or neck was correct, then without them we would have seen at least a 1000 fold sudden increase in death and serious injury in this sport. Might be interesting to compile *real* data and try to factor in other changes that have taken place concurrently. Then at least we can get back to the ever popular "if it saves just one..." and start contemplating the potential value of wearing the Michelin Man suit and enforcing speed limits.

Not saying they shouldn't be required, just saying that a good thing should be able to stand on the facts, not hype or emotional over-attribution.

So in that light, how many BSF have occurred while wearing a HANS or other similar head restraint device? There should be data on that floating around. 

 

And this is so far off topic it should be moved to another thread and continued.  Making racing safer for everyone is important, seeing your friends hurt brings perspective to an often overlooked part of the sport.   

[Steve Scheifler]

The answer to your question may well be (should be) zero of course. But the relevance of that fact can be put in perspective only WITH perspective. I've been around amateur racing longer than most and am strugglibg to think of specific examples prior to the Hans. Of course they were not as easily/readily communicated in those days but someone will know.

Unfortunately, personal experience is not always the best perspective. Truly avoidable injury of this kind can't be compared with, for example, the "perspective" of losing a loved one in war, but the emotions and reaction are similar. We lose thousands of people per year on the roads despite all the safety gear, expense, and at times added risk. By all accounts fatalities and serious injury have dropped considerably, but there is ALWAYS more that COULD be done. As with war, it takes rational minds not overly clouded by personal loss to make those decisions.

[James York]

That seems to have been largely debunked, not that it matters either way, just tired of reading/hearing it.

.......

 

I feel the same way about the SM parity threads.

 

I guess it is a good thing the forum allows free speech. (and opinions for that matter)

[Jamz14]

I'll trust the doctor and others that developed Hans information on the subject over anecdotal personal experience with no data behind it. I've personally attended the doctors presentation on Hans development and the benefits. Seems the prudent path. You know, trusting scientists and doctors instead of politicians that are neither but sit on science committees and feel compelled to comment on subjects.

[Steve Scheifler]

I feel the same way about the SM parity threads.

I guess it is a good thing the forum allows free speech. (and opinions for that matter)

Agreed! So long as it is understood that some things are fact, not opinion, and believing something at odds with the facts isn't really either one.

[tLinder]

Anyone have video of Sunday's race?   

I do. Whatcha you looking for?

[MPR22]

Wanted to see how people were dealing with the wet spots on dry tires.  

[tLinder]

Wanted to see how people were dealing with the wet spots on dry tires.  

Not as fast as you.  (Gives me incentive this w/e to splice together some footage from Sunday, stay tuned).  And congrat's again, impressive wheeling (that goes for all of this year)

[tferranti]

Wanted to see how people were dealing with the wet spots on dry tires.  

 

It was slick!  Great call on the rains.

[trimless]

Anyone have video of Sunday's race?   

Yes, but it only lasts for about 12 seconds. Once the spinning stops it gets rather boring.