24 replies to this topic

[Jamz14]

Not all the rules are "clear" as to what removals are allowed:

 

1. Vis-a-vis the definition of a "system". 

2. The cage rules allow you to remove material, etc for the purposes of installing the cage. 

3.  Is undercoating a paint?

...etc....

 

These and other rules have been interpretted and debated ad naseum, on here.  I'm not trying to open those back up.  if this were a rules reading class, then it would be useful to understand which rules allowed each of the listed removals.  I semi-dislike the creative rule interpretting aspect of racing.  I found it difficult to understand the rules, and determine if I had removed everything that is legal to remove.   At the time I didn't know a single sole in any form of racing.  I built my car following the NASA and SCCA rule books, Dave Wheeler's books, and the posts on this and the previous forum.  I documented it as I went specifically for two reasons:  1. to know what I had removed and eventually be able to ask someone if I'd missed anything. 2. To aid others in understanding what is legal to remove. 

 

I have NOT removed any wiring from my car associated with removed "systems".  I've removed the LRUs, but the harnesses are in tact. 

I HAVE removed the glove box because my cage bar goes right though its location.

I have NOT removed the undercoating. 

 

Yes, I gave you grief.  Well deserved, too.

I dont wish to discuss this much more but.... You guys are making my previous point about IIDSYCYC. In another thread I suggested that understanding IIDSYCYC is important and understanding its limitation is important. That a top prep car doesn't just follow IIDSYCYC blindly. Then you guys gave me all kinds of grief on that interpretation. Now you are suggesting exactly what I was saying before even if I have not communicated it as wonderfully as you two are. Now you want to hold up examples of turning the rotors as a proper ignoring of IIDSYCYC , making small distinctions about the title of paint or under coating. But somehow my suggestion of my wiper blade placement was cheating because it didn't follow the OEM arc (that was Burgoons ridiculous opinion). So you guys suggest turning the rotors. OK, you mean to the lowest OEM spec right???!!!! No you don't. You mean turning them down as far as you feel safe. Ignoring the OEM min spec which should have quite a bit of safety margin for road use in it. All for a bit of rotational weight savings.

 

Again, you guys have made my previous point that you ridiculed then. So what I am taking away from this is ignoring IIDSYCYC is ok for you because you apply it appropriately and are qualified to make a determination that for example, removal of undercoatings and such, wasn't "intended" by a particular rule. But me, I am applying my version in order to "engineer" my way to victory instead of driving you guys straight up.

 

My point has been and is - Exploit every gray area you possibly can without crossing the line of ethical. And that is a top prepped car. That and all the other things that Todd mentioned too.

[Ron Alan]

Good lord...this is a pissing match into the wind that is going everywhere

James and Tom...you're both to intellectual to be trying to one up each other. Let's just stick to what it takes legally to lower the weight of a car. In Johnny's case...ignore that man behind the curtain ala the wizard of Oz!

Let's start with this...not all 1.6 or NA Chassis are created equal. A 90 car is lighter than a 93 car...but I can't tell you by how much! New lower control arms from Mazda are heavier than your original ones! Most weight differences in the same year cars is not due to what you have taken out(if you think you got everything allowed) but by the new stuff you add! Cages, radiators, steering wheels, seats, hardtop, exhaust, wheels, upgrade to a 1.8 rear subframe and brace, are among the bigger items. Lots of little items that add up as well.

[Tom Hampton]

But, dad... He started it!

[Bench Racer]

After reading Ron's post #22. My 1990 2020 pound car has new 1997 sub frames and control arms. Front lower control arms have more meat and weld. Could be other differences not noticed.

[av8tor]

Tom Hampton,

Your candid responses and the tremendous amount of information you have provided on your blog have been instrumental in building my 99 for the 2016 season.  Thank you. 

PS

and yes I read the rule book, but your assistance answered all my questions...