14 replies to this topic

[Krusovice]

Hi

New guy here.  I've been racing in Chumpcar and World Racing League in cars other than Miata for 4 years, and I am now going to prepare a Miata for next year.  I'm currently in the "bewildered by options" phase of the build. The car is a 1994 R package.

 

My questions of the moment pertain to brake calipers and wheel hubs/bearings. I want to start fresh because I realize that not finishing a race because I saved a few dollars on parts is false economy.  But I also don't want to spend unnecessarily for a part that isn't an improvement.

 

I can order from Mazda Motorsports Development, but it looks like all their calipers are remans.  If I am going to get remans, is there any reason not to get them from Amazon/Rock Auto or some such?  I want good, solid, long lived brakes that I don't have to worry about (and I know about lubing the sliders...). 

 

Regarding hubs/wheel bearings, I want to replace them all with something good and solid.  The car will see a fair number of hours (but only 180 treadwear tires, rather than slicks).  Are the Mazda hubs better than the other ones?

 

Any thoughts or recommendations?

 

thanks

Mark

 

 

 

 

[Johnny D]

Mr Drago, site owner, National champ, runs and sell those things in the classified up top.

J~

[Krusovice]

I saw those.  They are part of the reason I am wondering.  I'm sure they are great parts, but they are also certainly for the racer looking for the last '10ths.

 

I'm not good enough to worry about those '10ths yet.  

 

I'm still worried about making a solid car on a budget and getting it to finish the race. So the question remains, are those parts worth the extra coin? (Hard to answer, I know, but I'm looking for people's experiences.)

 

Thanks

[Tom Hampton]

I'm only one guy, but I've been running the same Autozone front calipers for 4 years with zero issues. 

 

The current information on hubs (fronts) seems to be that aftermarket are hit&miss.  If you search you will find a wealth of recent failure data over the last few seasons.  Lots of theories as to why, but nothing conclusive.  And, no the mazda hubs don't appear to be any better than any other new hub. 

 

Its all anecdotal, but people seem to be having the best luck with repacked junkyard original hubs. 

 

Again, I'm just one guy, but I've been running the original donor hubs for 4 years. No cracks, wobble, or other noises.  I repack them a couple times a year (and after any wet weekends). 

 

I've got a document in the downloads section for how to repack the front hubs, if you haven't done that before.  Its not a factory standard procedure, but its pretty simple.

[callumhay]

Currently I have the Mazda race hubs on the front of my 1990 (ordered from mazda motor sports site) and have been very happy, after 1/2 season no play in them at all. Bought rear hub/knuckles from Jim Drago and been very happy also.

 

I replaced several times the front hubs with ones that I bought for less (such as GMB) and re packed using the technique that Tom mentioned in the downloads section. I found them very hit or miss and I think cheaper to me means probably less quality bearings. Maybe OK for street use but not that great in some cases for racing. Sometimes after a few races there were was very mild play in the bearings and it progressed from there. Replacing hubs and having spare hubs is one of the first things I guess we have to learn to do. My take on the Mazda Motorsports hubs is while they are more expensive,  that I believe them when they say they are using better quality bearings and they are greased properly. Now if they fail prematurely in the next 6 months, I may change my opinion, but so far could not be happier!.  Whatever you decide on, have at least 2 spares. If you like using the long studs they are a bit of a pain to press in with a cheap HF press, but doable. By the time you press in your own studs and repack a set or two...or three of hubs it probably would have been worth your while to buy from someone and make a couple of your own as spares....that way you have your own to compare if the need arises... For me it's a lot easier to take the chance on my own work if someone else's has failed me.. 

 

I had one Raybestos rear caliper fail at the seal on the track (4th race on 1st weekend of use!).  The other Raybestos caliper I installed at the same time  is still on my car. I think anything re-manufactured can be hit or miss, and even though I had been told that rear brakes are a pain to rebuild, I learned how to do it after that and now the failed caliper is my spare. Fronts are easy to rebuild. 

 

If you have not bought it already, buy a copy of Dave Wheeler's book from Advanced Autosports, he has a lot of tips and tricks in there. 

 

Good Luck and welcome to a sick, sick disease.

 

Cal

 

 

[Ron Alan]

Always been a budget racer(owner)...not by choice but necessity! Still running the same calipers that came with the car after 5 years! I did buy the rebuild kit(all new rubber)but nothing else...and not sure what else I could do? Have never bought a new front hub...had great luck cleaning and repacking! Had one failure after 2,5 years on one side...other side I changed(junkyard hub) just because the wheel got hit pretty hard. Over 2 years on the replacements...no issues! The rear bearings(originals 60k)I changed after 3 years just because I thought I should. Local supplier had sealed(looked that way but i'm sure they come apart)Timkin's...no issue after 2 years! Have a 99 that has run a season on what it came with! My cars dont run at the back!

 

It is a crap shoot but dont be afraid to run what you got...odds are things will be just as good as buying new/remained! New grease and rubber and go have fun!

[Tom Hampton]

My situation on calipers is much the same, Ron. 

 

I bought the caliper rebuild kits from Mazda when I first got the car.  I rebuild the original calipers and ran them for a year.  I noticed some uneven where, and a slight pull under initial braking during that time.  So, I tried replacing the calipers with Autozone variety, and immediately rebuild them with the Mazda rubber before even installing on the car.  That didn't fix my problem, and I replaced the master cylinder---which fixed the issue.  I left the Autozone calipers on the car, and kept the stock as backup.  Narry an issue. 

 

I seem to recall Saul or maybe it was Dave saying to only use Maza rubber parts.  So, that's what I did.  Maybe I imagined that, but it has worked for my calipers. 

 

The biggest thing to me, is to ensure the guide pins are properly greased and the calipers slide easily---too much grease is just as bad as not enough.  Then watch the inner/outer pad wear.  If one pad is wearing faster or uneven (tapered) then something ain't right, and the caliper is hanging on the guides.

[Krusovice]

I'm mildly tempted to run the brakes and hubs in the car now, but they may be original 180k parts and I'm not quite that budget...

[Tom Hampton]

I'm mildly tempted to run the brakes and hubs in the car now, but they may be original 180k parts and I'm not quite that budget...

 

Mine were 210k, and are currently at 230k+ or so?  I wouldn't run them without a repack....but, with all new grease after inspecting the bearing surfaces for pits and what not?  Obviously, I didn't have a problem doing it that way. 

[Keith Novak]

IMHO, rebuilt/massaged hubs and brakes are two cheap ways to get more efficient power transmission to the pavement.

 

I use junkyard hubs with repacked bearings, and I press in long studs.  The long studs allow you to use wheel spacers for maximum offset of wheels that have more than 25mm offset while still having enough threads engaged by the lug nuts.  The rebuilt hubs turn much more freely than before repacking.

As for brakes, I get significantly less drag with Jim’s rebuilds than stock.  Both the piston and the bore can pick up corrosion over time.  The part sticking out of the bore can get exposed to stuff in the air over time, and the part inside gets exposed to contaminants in the fluid over time. 

 

Think about the calipers when the pads are getting thin.  A lot of the piston is sticking out to press the pads.  When that exposed part picks up a bit of surface corrosion, once you push the pistons all the way in for new pads the previously exposed corrosion will bind a bit in the bores.  With nice clean pistons and bores, they move freely through the whole range of motion.  The e-brake adjusters also create drag if everything isn’t squeaky clean and meticulously adjusted.

 

I have a ’95 with rebuilt hubs and Drago calipers with no e-brake and it rolls much more freely than before, and much more freely than my ’99 with rebuilt hubs but calipers that look like they were found in a swamp and e-brake retained.  I figure I’m giving up a couple HP in my ’99, especially with new pads will be fixing that soon.  You can rebuild them yourself, but may find pitting you can't just wipe out with Brasso once you get in there so old calipers may not turn out so well rebuilt at home.

 

Just my

 

(p.s. I am not a shill for East Street but wouldn't turn down a discount on my future parts order for the endorsement. )

[Tom Hampton]

If it talks like a shill....

[Krusovice]

When repacking where do you find new bearings? Or does one hope the steel is still good and just swap grease (checking for damage, of course).

I'm thinking to repack my existing 180k hubs but to buy some cheap spares for trackside repairs. Any suggestions on brands?

[Keith Novak]

I don't replace bearings.  If there is any sign of damage at all, the hub goes in the trash.  I'm repacking the grease only, and most of the time you'll find that the original grease looks pristine.

 

Cheap spare hubs are false economy.  I'm probably a bit jaded as I recently tried just about every parts store brand box made and had failure rates in terms of 1-2 days.  If you don't have spares, I'd recommend going on ebay and finding a set of spindles and hubs (about $40 per side) and repacking the hubs.  For the price of the hub you get a free spindle.

[wreckerboy]

Re: parts house calipers.

I've given up on Rock Auto and PepVatoZone calipers at this point. NAPA or OE for me if I'm not rebuilding them. Every damned Rock Auto caliper I have attempted to buy for a variety of vehicles over the last few years, not just Mazdas, has had problems either right out of the box or shortly thereafter. Perhaps the worst was on the tow beast ('04 E350) which, when I replaced the front calipers, had mismatched hardware and leaked to no end. I got all of that fixed and installed the calipers, only to have them fail due a rusty piston less than 500 miles later. At that
I spent the money and bought new ones from Ford.

[Krusovice]

I'm reading the Spec Miata Constructors Guide and it says the rear hubs are not servicable (and are more durable).

I'm leaning towards this:
Get a set of used hubs/spindles for the front. Repack the bearings on both the replacements and the ones on the car now.

Get a set of used rear hubs/spindles as spares. Check the bearings for play and use them.

Try to find a good set of "new" (meaning reman) calipers. If I can stretch the budget I'll get the East Streets (especially for the rear though I'm tempted to leave the parking brake in for now...I like the idea of a fail safe with newer drivers).

Thanks for the ideas/opinions. And more are always welcome.