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Poll: Hoosier Tires, 195/50-15 poll (88 member(s) have cast votes)

Would you support a change to a 195/50-15 size tire of the same brand and model?

  1. Yes (51 votes [57.30%])

    Percentage of vote: 57.30%

  2. No (38 votes [42.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 42.70%

Do you feel this change would reduce wear and tear on suspension components?

  1. Yes (58 votes [65.91%])

    Percentage of vote: 65.91%

  2. No (30 votes [34.09%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.09%

Do you feel this change would improve parity among the different model year cars?

  1. Yes (28 votes [31.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.82%

  2. No (60 votes [68.18%])

    Percentage of vote: 68.18%

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#1
Johnny D

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Just an example..

The tread width on the Hoosier size 205 is 8", the RR's are 7.6"

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#2
Bench Racer

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Tire compound should play a very large part in topic reply.


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#3
davew

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I generally ignore these polls. But I did vote in this one. With some disclaimers.

 

Tire must fit properly on the current 15 x 7 wheel

There must be a transition period. The method we used for the RA1 to RR seemed to work well.

I feel the parity would be effected slightly. but this is not the reason I would be for this change.

 

dave


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#4
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It all sounds good, but how will the smaller tire affect heat cycles? Going from the SM6 to the SM7 we saw a increase in overall life of a tire. If by running a smaller tire we lose half the amount of run time, I would rather service hubs more frequent (which most are doing on a normal schedule anyways). I don't know the answer so this is based as a question and not a statement.


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#5
James York

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It all sounds good, but how will the smaller tire affect heat cycles? Going from the SM6 to the SM7 we saw a increase in overall life of a tire. If by running a smaller tire we lose half the amount of run time, I would rather service hubs more frequent (which most are doing on a normal schedule anyways). I don't know the answer so this is based as a question and not a statement.

 

Why would you think a tire of slightly smaller circumference would have a different number of heat cycles applied per race weekend?  Or a different number of available heat cycles if cast in the same compound?


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#6
NPiekarski

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Truly that's why I was asking, i'm not sure.


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#7
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It would be nice if we could get some input and information from Hoosier about what they think the differences would be AND a tire test before we jump ship.

 

I voted for the change, but to be honest, before we go down this road i would like to see that we get a few sets of tires, and play with them at different tracks. It would be nice to have more information before we made the change.


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#8
Ron Alan

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How many have said the Hoosier 205 is bigger than the Toyo? Wouldn't it make sense to ask Hoosier first to change their mold if in fact it is not a true 205 by industry standards? Or is a Toyo 205 really a 195?

 

The SM7 has proved to have a little more life(usable heat cycles) than the SM6. But the RR seems to really be a better value...especially for the majority of the class(P6 back!). Maybe 10 cycles for the front, 15 for the midpack and 20 plus towards the back! Shaving is not common out west...in fact I would say very rare. Of course it is just West Coast drivers...not sure if its a good judge ;)

 

And i might add...front runner at Laguna Seca was only .2 sec off a track record(They dont keep tire specific records but some of us pay attention!)on 11 cycle RR's. They really seem to maintain their speed!


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#9
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The 195 tire might just be as fast or faster if its lighter. It could be a better combination than what we have now,  the amount of grip we get is not the issue so it could turn out that the 195 has adequate Grip and lighter weight. That is why i think some testing is in order,  could be win, win, and win.


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#10
Bench Racer

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A tire with less grip would be great for the reasons previously stated and a tire with less grip would also require more talent from the spacer between the seat and steering wheel.


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#11
Johnny D

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"if" your only going to get a certain number of cycles before it falls off a cliff that even a mid pack guy can tell, how about a 2/32 or 1/32 ?

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#12
Keith Novak

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My initial thought would be that a smaller contact patch with the same compound would wear faster than the same contact patch with a harder compound.  Both will have less grip but the harder compound will probably leave more rubber on the tires at the same amount of side-slip.


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#13
Parity

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How many have said the Hoosier 205 is bigger than the Toyo? Wouldn't it make sense to ask Hoosier first to change their mold if in fact it is not a true 205 by industry standards? Or is a Toyo 205 really a 195?

 

The SM7 has proved to have a little more life(usable heat cycles) than the SM6. But the RR seems to really be a better value...especially for the majority of the class(P6 back!). Maybe 10 cycles for the front, 15 for the midpack and 20 plus towards the back! Shaving is not common out west...in fact I would say very rare. Of course it is just West Coast drivers...not sure if its a good judge ;)

 

And i might add...front runner at Laguna Seca was only .2 sec off a track record(They dont keep tire specific records but some of us pay attention!)on 11 cycle RR's. They really seem to maintain their speed!

I didn't want to bring this up since the thread is titled "Hoosier Tires" but... since you did I can't agree more. Most guys I talk to in the NE definitely prefer RR's. MUCH longer life and close in lap times. My last race I switched from 15 cycles RR's to new scrubs. Same lap times. SM7's are better than SM6's but still fall off after 4-5 cycles. Would be nice to have SCCA/NASA on same tire. 


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#14
topgear3793

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I didn't want to bring this up since the thread is titled "Hoosier Tires" but... since you did I can't agree more. Most guys I talk to in the NE definitely prefer RR's. MUCH longer life and close in lap times. My last race I switched from 15 cycles RR's to new scrubs. Same lap times. SM7's are better than SM6's but still fall off after 4-5 cycles. Would be nice to have SCCA/NASA on same tire. 

 

Yep, did the same thing with 18+ heat cycle RR's and swapping to stickers. The more heat cycles they have, the harder they are to drive, but if you can hang on to the car it will put down the same lap times until they cord.

 

IMO Hoosier needs to focus on developing a longer lasting tire compound before messing around with sizing.


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#15
Johnny D

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IMO Hoosier needs to focus on developing a longer lasting tire compound before messing around with sizing.


This is not a issue for the top guys that shave their tires and run them 3 times.

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#16
Ron Alan

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This is not a issue for the top guys that shave their tires and run them 3 times.

J~

Ok...for the record...any of you Majors podium finishers or the runoffs shave your sticker SM7's?? Unless people are really good at shaving tires to look like out of the mold SM7's, i dont remember seeing any shaved tires at Laguna Runoffs or Majors out West...


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Ron

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#17
Keith Novak

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Out of curiosity, what other components are the tires tearing up aside from hubs? 

 

Going from a 205 to a 195 is about a 5% change in width/contact area.  I'm thinking my way through suspension components, and I don't really see how too many would be prone to damage that way.  Control arms, knuckles, tie rods, subframes...nope, nope and nope.  I've been (ab)using them for a while and haven't seen much additional wear and tear.

 

Now going off the track faster than before...yes absolutely that will tear up suspension more but that's not really the fault of the grip.  It's the fault of whoever goes past the grip.


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#18
Johnny D

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You have to read through the other threads but Hubs, 3 gear, it is a bigger tire compared to Toyo RR, not sure about RA1's.

I don't think you'll run closer together, men from the boys.

 

But I would keep talking about this in depth unless you want to talk about 1.6 testing some more.

Which maybe why this was started. :)

 

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#19
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Out of curiosity, what other components are the tires tearing up aside from hubs? 

 

Going from a 205 to a 195 is about a 5% change in width/contact area.  I'm thinking my way through suspension components, and I don't really see how too many would be prone to damage that way.  Control arms, knuckles, tie rods, subframes...nope, nope and nope.  I've been (ab)using them for a while and haven't seen much additional wear and tear.

 

Now going off the track faster than before...yes absolutely that will tear up suspension more but that's not really the fault of the grip.  It's the fault of whoever goes past the grip.

 

I'm eating shit on ball joints (upper and lower) as well as inner tie rod joints.  I've replaced a full set on each car this year and last but in the past I'd gone years on the same wheel bearings.  I'm not doing faster laps and my alignment is less aggressive.  


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#20
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For what it's worth, in response to the question posed by Ron,

 

"Ok...for the record...any of you Majors podium finishers or the runoffs shave your sticker SM7's?? Unless people are really good at shaving tires to look like out of the mold SM7's, i dont remember seeing any shaved tires at Laguna Runoffs or Majors out West..."

 

As an "entrant" (not driver) in the 2015 NASA Western Championship event ( 5th place) and SCCA 2015 Western Conference Major's event 1st, 2nd, & 3rd podium finishes:

 

- We did not shave either the Hoosiers or Toyo's this season.

 

- Agree that the Hoosiers fall off after 5+ heat cycles.

 

- Would prefer Toyo RR's to aid with our racing budget based on increased heat cycle capability along with minimal performance drop off.

 

- Based on experience over the years, are of the opinion that the front hubs are capable of "multi-race seasons life duty cycle" with failures more likely being related to a hub manufacturing quality issue, followed by poor/improper maintenance practices (torque/lube contamination) and lastly a result due of impact load damage. 

 

Rich Powers


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