825 replies to this topic

[speedengineer]

I'm creating this thread as a placeholder to document my fresh 1999 SM build which I'll be starting here in a couple of months.

 

A little background first.  For the last three years, I have been running in NASA PTE with a miata I built specifically for that class.  I do love PTE for many reasons, but the time has come for a new challenge, Spec Miata.  Very much looking forward to the stiff competition of large fields stacked with so many talented drivers.

 

I've had many 'naysayers' tell me that I won't run up front without an expensive pro-built car, with a pro motor, and all the little 'build tricks' etc.  Certainly, I don't expect to do well with a crudy car.  At the same time, I am skeptical that there is any need for a $30k to $40k SM to run up front (assuming my driving skill is also good enough...). 

 

So, what I am presenting here in this build thread is going to be my little experiment:  Can I build a fresh SM, capable of podiuming at Majors races, for less than $15k?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  Let's find out!

 

Until the build actually starts and I update the thread, feel free to tell me that I'm crazy, offer suggestions, etc, etc.  FYI....much of the reason this build will be so inexpensive, is I'm doing all the work myself, thus free labor.  This includes the cage as well as the motor build.  Actually, my current excel spreadsheet puts the cost at $12,500.  But, I'm calling it $15k, as I'm sure there'll be items that come up along the way that I neglected to accout for!  I will, of course, be maintaining a detailed cost logbook so we will see what it ends up being. 

 

Sneak peak of the '99 chassis I picked up last weekend.

 

 

 

 

 

[NPiekarski]

Cool idea. I can vouch for Jason, met a few times and very down to earth....and can wheel a car. Good luck.

[Keith Andrews]

Interesting.  I'll play along.

 

What did the donor cost and is your first name Speed?

 

 

Good luck.  Who is going to drive the car?

[speedengineer]

Thanks Nic!

 

Keith, I payed $4500 for the donor, but it came with some aftermarket parts that I'll easily sell for $1000. So, I am stating that I purchased the donor car for $3500. 

 

I'm Jason by the way.  Guess I'll have to add that to my sig     I get to be the builder, financer, driver, and usually crew also!  Can you tell I'm not married haha?

[Ron Alan]

Do understand that the big dollar cars are there for 2 reasons...they have a lot of bling which doesn't necessarily improve speed but certainly sex appeal! People love to be noticed driving by and those big numbers are weekend spending money for many! That said you will spend every bit of 15k if you buy new/good quality safety items and do a little motor/tranny work. Have fun with the new project...hope it came with a Torsen!

[Parity]

Jason, to be fair you should track your hours as well. Your budget sounds reasonable doing all the work yourself but... would you build me one for that much? The shops are getting paid for labor too. And get some roundup on that driveway

[Keith Andrews]

Jason - Great time of year to start your project to be ready to run in 2016.

[mhiggins10]

I'm honestly pretty curious about what would/should go into this, so what does everyone think is needed to podium at a major, aside from the basics (safety/general mechanicals)?

 

Built engine/headwork

Adjustable timing/tuning dyno time

Rebuilt pro blueprinted hubs with "special" grease

Rebuilt pro brake calipers

Eccentric bolts and rebuilt/freshened suspension

Suspension setup kit for tweaks throughout weekend

 

I'm clearly not a "top prep"/Majors podium type person, so I have no idea what else might be needed, or if any of the above is (aside from engine, obviously).  Anyone else want to clue Jason in on what he's going to have to do? 

[Mike Collins]

It will be tough to do it for $15k

 

Car - $3500

Hardtop - $750 (if you are lucky)

Cage - $2500

Seat - $750

Belts, window net, kill switch, mirror, steering wheel, hub. - $1000

Clutch - $300

Radiator - $500

Engine - $4500 (on a budget buys someones cast off)

Homemade graphics - $50

Brakes - $250 (assuming you are using everything that is already on the car, this is just pads)

Exhaust - $300

Fluids - $100

Wheels and tires - $1000 (one set)

Misc stuff - $500 (hardtop brackets, power steering conversion, bolts and hardware, ect...)

 

I think this list is the bare bones minimum to get a car close to the front.  There is a ton more you can do or may need to depending on the donor, the pics look nice but they don't tell the whole story.  Sub frames?  Brake Calipers? Hubs? Axles? Brake lines? Master and Slave? Transmission? Does it have a Torsen? Steering Rack? Federal or CA car?

[speedengineer]

I'm honestly pretty curious about what would/should go into this, so what does everyone think is needed to podium at a major, aside from the basics (safety/general mechanicals)?

 

Built engine/headwork

Adjustable timing/tuning dyno time

Rebuilt pro blueprinted hubs with "special" grease

Rebuilt pro brake calipers

Eccentric bolts and rebuilt/freshened suspension

Suspension setup kit for tweaks throughout weekend

 

I'm clearly not a "top prep"/Majors podium type person, so I have no idea what else might be needed, or if any of the above is (aside from engine, obviously).  Anyone else want to clue Jason in on what he's going to have to do?

 

-I will be doing the motor myself (apart from having the machine done at a shop, as I don't have that equipment).  I am budgeting $2000, but it will cost way less than that.  Probably closer to $1000. 

-Tuning/dyno adjustments is cake.  I can knock that out in an hour or two on the local dyno I use which charges $75 an hour.

-I believe that there is NO lap time benefit to blueprinted/regreased hub bearings.  Friction there on a stock hub is already negligeable.

-Caliper rebuild - I'll do this myself, if nessecary.  Almost free to do.

-Hopefully the suspension is all straight on my donor car.  Might replace some ball joints/tie rod ends as needed but those are cheap.

[speedengineer]

It will be tough to do it for $15k

 

Car - $3500

Hardtop - $750 (if you are lucky)

Cage - $2500

Seat - $750

Belts, window net, kill switch, mirror, steering wheel, hub. - $1000

Clutch - $300

Radiator - $500

Engine - $4500 (on a budget buys someones cast off)

Homemade graphics - $50

Brakes - $250 (assuming you are using everything that is already on the car, this is just pads)

Exhaust - $300

Fluids - $100

Wheels and tires - $1000 (one set)

Misc stuff - $500 (hardtop brackets, power steering conversion, bolts and hardware, ect...)

 

I think this list is the bare bones minimum to get a car close to the front.  There is a ton more you can do or may need to depending on the donor, the pics look nice but they don't tell the whole story.  Sub frames?  Brake Calipers? Hubs? Axles? Brake lines? Master and Slave? Transmission? Does it have a Torsen? Steering Rack? Federal or CA car?

 

 

Cage will be about $450 in tubing, plus I'm allotting another $250 in griding/welding/cutting supplies, etc.  Plus $100 for interior and cage paint. So, $800 max for the cage.

 

I buy nice belts - $400.  Window net, kill switch, and mirrow are all done for $125 combined.  Steering wheel and hub, maybe $250?  So $800 here?

 

No clutch needed, got about 3 of them laying around.

 

No chance I'm spending $500 on a radiator, haha!

 

Engine - less than $2k, full build.

 

 

Anyway, here's my list:  Let me know what I'm forgetting, and thanks everyone for the input!

[Bench Racer]

Jason, more power to you and I will be a continuous follower.      

 

Did my car including new sub-frames/control arms. Roll cage and motor by the pro's..

[DrDomm]

Very interesting!...as I rebuild my own car this winter, from a new donor/cage ($4800, right there).  Admittedly, you have more skills than me (I don't weld or do motor work).

 

So, I'm assuming that car had the Torsen, and that you aren't planning on exterior paint...or Fat Cat kit (edit: unless that's what you mean by "Bushing Kit").  You prolly already have a transponder, radio, and some kind of data system.

 

Should be awesome to follow!  I think with some re-used stuff you can do it on budget.  Good luck.

[speedengineer]

Poop.  Forgot about the Fat Cat bushing kit.  Looks like I can get a suspension kit that includes the fat cat parts for $1830, instead of the $1600 I had listed.  So add $230 to the total. 

 

Torsen - came with car.  Smooth shifting 5-speed too. 

Exterior paint is in great shape, if I want some decals I'll just cut some vinyl.

Transponder - already have

Radio - usually not used, but have rigged it up before with cheap handheld stuff

Data is AIM Solo that I already have.  I want to upgrade to an AIM dash, but I won't include that in the cost of the build, as that is not required equipment.

[Blake Thompson]

Poop.  Forgot about the Fat Cat bushing kit.  Looks like I can get a suspension kit that includes the fat cat parts for $1830, instead of the $1600 I had listed.  So add $230 to the total. 

 

Torsen - came with car.  Smooth shifting 5-speed too. 

Exterior paint is in great shape, if I want some decals I'll just cut some vinyl.

Transponder - already have

Radio - usually not used, but have rigged it up before with cheap handheld stuff

Data is AIM Solo that I already have.  I want to upgrade to an AIM dash, but I won't include that in the cost of the build, as that is not required equipment.

 

 

If we're being honest about building a car for x amount you really can't be counting the items you have on the shelf.

[NPiekarski]

Jason-

My opinion only...and I am wrong a lot. If you were going to allocate $380 to bushings, only replace if needed and spend that money on some decent hubs to get that car rolling. Again just my opinion.

[davew]

I will only shoot a couple holes in your budget.

 

Using parts left over from previous projects will not effect your bottom line. But in a factual matter you did spend that money at some point. So it should be factored into your equasion. keeping the radio and data out is ok in my book. but the transponder and clutch add almost $1000 to the build cost, if purchased new.

 

I can save you some money, I sell the suspension kit with Fat Cats for $1600.

 

Obviously you have access to a lot of equipment that most home builders do not have. Engine hoists, tube benders, welders, set up equipment, etc. So you are not the typical budget builder.

 

You have no tires and only one set of wheels budgeted. Minimum would be 2 sets dry and a set of rains.

 

A pro built head is $1000+, Add in rings, pistons, bearings, seals, gaskets, water pump, timing belt etc and your $2000 budget is done.

 

I see no brake pads, rotors, fluids of any kind, fire extinguisher, stickers, fan belt, filters, tune-up parts etc. Probably $1500 worth of misc stuff to add to the budget.

 

Any known SM exhaust is $300+, Regulators are $350+ A $300 radiator will overheat in the summer at close racing, which is what you do as a front runner. hardtops are going more like $1200. But they can be found at your $800 budget with patience.

 

I think a truer number for your project as described would be closer to $15k out of pocket. Think about the things you are not doing, that add up. Do you really think you can build as good a motor as Drago, Rosinni or Stewart? 3 sets of tires and 2 more sets of wheels adds $3500

 

Plus, you never factured in the $24.95 for the Spec Miata Constructors Manual 

 

I wish you luck, there is great satisfaction in racing a car that you built yourself. Enjoy the 300 hours you will spend building the car.

 

Dave

[basscat]

You can do it. We built ours for less than $15k and that that included buying the car/hardtop, fresh Rossini motor, $pringfield dyno radiator, eSpeed cage, new windshield and everything else. We bought a used seat, used wheels, latch link seat belts (less expensive), gloshift digital gauges (less expensive). We did everything else including little things like disabling the ebrake, rebuilding the calipers, adding extended wheel studs and fabricating whatever. He ran 5th for most of the NASA East Coast Championship race and had the 5th fastest lap. Finished 6th due to (in my opinion) a decision in the last turn of the last lap that killed his momentum - should've finished 4th but hindsight is 20/20. This was his first full year racing so he should get better.

 

Results: http://timingscoring...ed by Mazda.pdf

[Ron Alan]

What Dave W said!....^^^^ Saved me the typing! A true build "cost" includes everything whether you purchased it a year ago or in a month...lets not give unjustified hope to someone uninformed what a true build cost is!

[MPR22]

-I will be doing the motor myself (apart from having the machine done at a shop, as I don't have that equipment).  I am budgeting $2000, but it will cost way less than that.  Probably closer to $1000. If it costs less than 3K you didn't do everything you should have. You are down 3-5hp.

-Tuning/dyno adjustments is cake.  I can knock that out in an hour or two on the local dyno I use which charges $75 an hour. 

-I believe that there is NO lap time benefit to blueprinted/regreased hub bearings.  Friction there on a stock hub is already negligeable. You are mistaken and are leaving at least 1-2hp on the table. You haven't mentioned the work on the half shafts another 2-3 hp. 

-Caliper rebuild - I'll do this myself, if nessecary.  Almost free to do.

-Hopefully the suspension is all straight on my donor car.  Might replace some ball joints/tie rod ends as needed but those are cheap. It all adds up, I would 100% replace the ball joints, if one is bad you spend the rest of the year chasing a poor handling slow ass car, about  6Hp for one bad ball joint.  

 

 

So far it appears your budget build is good for about 12th place at a regional with a good driver.  

 

Don't mean to bust your balls too much, really trying to help.  We have built 4 cars in 5 years with the help of other most recently Chris Haldeman at X-Factor Racing and doing it cheap and doing it right are 2 different things.  We did the first car cheap and spent 15k.  Every car since then has been progressively more expensive as we learn what "right" is.