53 replies to this topic

[B(Kuch)Kucera45]

And you guys call the 1.6 guys cheap ! Lmao !!!!

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Sorry huch we spent our gasket money on our lsd diff.

[dstevens]

Not that I shive a git, but is there a huge demand for converting an NA 1.6 to an NA 1.8 that I missed? Are OEM NA 1.8s getting scarce? Is there a competitive advantage for doing this? (kinda thought the NA 1.8 was the red-headed step child of SM)

 

I thought the parity issue just got fixed.

 

I'm so confused.

Here's a real world, happening right now scenario that would support doing a 1.6 to 1.8 swap.  There is a new build 90 with a long nose built over 2011-2012 winter-spring.  Never hit the track.  The long nose has a sleeve in 4 and is .020 over.  Back then it was difficult enough to find 1.6 donor motors without having them shipped across the country.  I just looked to see if I could do a block swap and at least get it out of my shop and some of the money back.  It had all the fluids drained and hasn't been fired for at least a year.  When the fluids were replaced the water pump decided to become a sprinkler.  Inlet gasket was changed (only dealer had them, and only had a couple my Mazdaspeed expired long ago)  No go,  after pulling the frong off weep hole leaking as well.  No one had an NA water pump available locally, even the dealer.  All were a few days or so away, if they were even interested.  Rock Auto, here in a couple of days though the selection of NA parts at even Rock Auto is getting limited.  The cars are old, the parts aren't that available compared to even a 95.  With the block mods it's not legal but were I able to race  I'd run it anyway.  It's a car that's likely to get stripped, parted and crushed and never raced when it could get a junkyard 1.8 and go to someone that needs an entry level car.  That's not the only car in that position.

 

There are a lot of 1.6 NAs that have been made into race cars.  Prolonging the life of those cars can help the class overall.  It can get people into racing that otherwise couldn't afford it.   Lose the grassroots of the class and you'll lose the class.  Sure, there's big car counts at big races but regional is the life blood of the club.  This is a no brainer.  Prolonging an older car has no downside.  Even if only a handful of people do it.  It doesn't hurt anyone else and could potentially have upside for the class.   People that want to run up front are going to get a good 99 or VVT.  A 20-30k car.  They aren't going to resurrect some beater NA because they could retrofit it with a lesser engine than what the front runners are using.  It's a good idea, don't over think it...

[Brandon]

How it is done is irrelevant to what it means for the class.

I imagine if you took a poll there would be 100 different opinions on how to re-classify the cars. This is the one the SMAC has chosen.

Let's discuss the important question: Do you think it is a good idea or not?

 

Good idea or not, we already have competitors "doing this" (or other variations thereof) whether we like it or not so let's follow the example of the past 5 years and make it legal per the rules?

 

Just my $.02...

[LarryKing]

Mr. Stevens, I have never experienced any issues in finding NA 1.6 parts. Your car would very likely sell as is, and certainly could be raced with a legal 1.6 engine swap.

 

Again, I really don't care if a new rule allows updating, I'm just surprised that there is much of a demand.

[Brian129]

arent 1.6's stil available as crate from mazdaspeed? 

 

I have had 4 different 1.6 motors, i keep selling them to friends and switching to better deals  

 

isn't the block a carry over from another car too?

[Jim Drago]

arent 1.6's stil available as crate from mazdaspeed?

no

[mhiggins10]

no

I called last week and they noted they had ONE left.  $3800, if I recall correctly.

 

That said, I didn't ask them to actually go put their hands on it for me to confirm it was actually THERE and not just showing in the computer...

[Jim Drago]

I called last week and they noted they had ONE left.  $3800, if I recall correctly.
 
That said, I didn't ask them to actually go put their hands on it for me to confirm it was actually THERE and not just showing in the computer...

I called and spoke Scott two weeks ago and was told no more crates of any 05 down miata?

[dstevens]

Mr. Stevens, I have never experienced any issues in finding NA 1.6 parts. Your car would very likely sell as is, and certainly could be raced with a legal 1.6 engine swap.

 

Again, I really don't care if a new rule allows updating, I'm just surprised that there is much of a demand.

Mr. Stevens is old, grayed and retired on the side of a mountain in the middle of nowhere.  His son Dave isn't far behind...

 

It's a 25 year old car.  Parts are becoming scarce.  Pricing and availability was compounded by the popularity of the class.  If I were that concerned about selling it I would have done it over the last few years.  It's taking up space that I could use for a CNC router.  It's not a good car for a beginner as is.  It's going to need at least a new block.  Used blocks from cars in that era are $100 all day long.  Tough to find a bare block for a 1.6.  By the time you bring that car into spec, get the seat, belts and nets I sold a couple years back before they date expired, get a logbook and sort the car you're into it for more than what it would cost to get an in region used car that's been raced and has a book and setup info.  It would be a dick move for me to sell this car to a new guy that didn't know any better.  

 

I got no qualms cutting it up.  It's not the first time I've cut up a car.  That's what happens with old production based race cars. Germane to this discussion is the idea of a 1.8 swap.  There are two 1.8 NAs at Pick-A-Part locally.  I could get the whole engine for $500 or so.  A 1.6 from a racer ('cause that's where they all are) is going to be a grand or two plus shipping and hoping the seller is saavy enough to be able to palletize the shipment so it's not smashed.

 

The NAs are dead to national competition and have been for a while.  It's still a good candidate for a regional runner though long in the tooth.   Except for some outliers it's all 99 and above.   It's not too long before it's mostly VVTs.  A 99 donor is cheap and a better platform even for a noob.  There is no need to eliminate the NAs from national competition by rule. The market has already done that.  However, if you can still give budget racers and relatively inexpensive way to run nationally, though not competitively, I see it as nothing but a plus.

[FTodaro]

I think i bought one of the last few of the crate 99 motors about 4 or 5 years ago. Sad to see the VVT's are now done also.

 

I did have the foresight to buy a new front air dam for a VVT.

 

There are two problems here Denny

 

Parts availability and COST,

 

When the parts get scarce the prices go up. I commend the SMAC for taking steps to try to keep the costs down. I know you are in line with that idea.

[Tom Hampton]

Mr. Stevens is old, grayed and retired on the side of a mountain in the middle of nowhere.  His son Dave isn't far behind...

Are you saying that you aren't going to make good on this promise?  Mr. Hampton's car has been on the tracks around Texas all year waiting...
 

I can't wait to finish my car so I can go down to TX and get some of Tom's new paint job on my quarter panels.

source....

http://mazdaracers.c...ge-2#entry19643

[dstevens]

Are you saying that you aren't going to make good on this promise?  Mr. Hampton's car has been on the tracks around Texas all year waiting...
 

source....

http://mazdaracers.c...ge-2#entry19643

 

 

LOL, good times.  My mouth write check ass can't cash.  

 

I can still scratch your paint, I'll just be with my rental car when I'm trying to park next to you in the paddock. 

[mhiggins10]

I called and spoke Scott two weeks ago and was told no more crates of any 05 down miata?

 

I think we're both saying the same thing though- crate motors are pretty much gone for the 1.6Ls.