30 replies to this topic

[Steve Scheifler]

The rule on this has changed but there are no strikeouts or red text in the 2016 GCR so it may not be noticed.

Old rule:
Tape and/or other materials may not be applied to the mesh or in the radiator opening in the bodywork. Tape or other materials may only be added directly to the radiator.


New rule:
Tape may be applied to the mesh.

The new wording can be created from the old through deletion with no other changes so perhaps that's why it was missed. Seems it should show the strikeouts for one year.

[Todd Lamb]

Was there not a mention of the area of tape allowed?

[Sean - MiataCage]

Cut and Paste from January 16 GCR Update:

3. A radiator screen of .125 inch minimum mesh may be added in front of the radiator. The screen must be a single layer and installed behind the front bumper cover and attached to the air guide. Tape may be applied to the mesh. 

[Rob Burgoon]

 

Cut and Paste from January 16 GCR Update:

3. A radiator screen of .125 inch minimum mesh may be added in front of the radiator. The screen must be a single layer and installed behind the front bumper cover and attached to the air guide. Tape may be applied to the mesh. 

 

 

Wait, why do we care what size the mesh is if you can just tape sections off?

[Tom Sager]

Wait, why do we care what size the mesh is if you can just tape sections off?

Yes and wasn't the old rule a .250" mesh?  So now a .250" mesh is no longer legal?

[chris haldeman]

.125 is the minimum .250 is still legal

[Tom Sager]

.125 is the minimum .250 is still legal

Thank you.

[Steve Scheifler]

Now define screen and mesh. It no longer matters with the tape rule, but I have a couple pre-made Miata radiator shields from material that has 1/8" holes but rather than a wire mesh it is like a solid sheet with holes in it, looking much the same but with a much lower percentage of holes relative to solid. Probably not what you want on a hot day but I think technically compliant if contrary to the intent of the mesh size rule.

[Sean - MiataCage]

I would not constitute a solid piece of metal with holes punched in it to be the same as "mesh".  I'm not in tech and I don't really care, but I think that you are making a big leap on saying that they are the same. 

 

Just my 2 cents......

 

Sean

[Steve Scheifler]

Like I said, define mesh in technical terms. Unless you can and it somehow includes max "wire" size or minimum % void, I think I'd win until a clarification was written. Looking at it, it seems to fit the rules as worded and I think most would agree.

[Kevin B]

Steve, we met at Road Atlanta (we were paddock neighbors).  I hope all is well with you.

 

I am a huge fan of debate and clarification when necessary.  However, when your phrase starts with "It no longer matters..." you can probably stop typing, yes?  : )

[Bench Racer]

Mesh

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Metal screen mesh
A mesh is a barrier made of connected strands of metal, fiber, or other flexible/ductile materials. A mesh is similar to a web or a net in that it has many attached or woven strands.

 

Mesh

 

noun

 

1. material made of a network of wire or thread.
"mesh for fishing nets"

[Steve Scheifler]

Steve, we met at Road Atlanta (we were paddock neighbors). I hope all is well with you.

I am a huge fan of debate and clarification when necessary. However, when your phrase starts with "It no longer matters..." you can probably stop typing, yes? : )

😀 Then I'll amend to say it "shouldn't" matter, I still have the screens and if they were non-compliant before they still are, even if the difference is no longer relevant. But point taken, I don't know anyone who would actually challenge it.

Bench, I'm thinking Wikipedia probably isn't the official SCCA source for terminology definitions. Nor is good old Webster even though the very first entry is:

Definition of mesh. 1 : a material of open texture with evenly spaced holes.

I tend to agree though that it should involve multiple pieces of material "meshed" together.

Isn't this riveting stuff?

[Caveman-kwebb99]

personally i think it should be anything that keeps the rocks out of a $600 plus radiator which is protectiong a $7500 part.  I dont care if its holes punched in sheetmetal, or wires welded together or whatever, nobody is gonna run anything to drastic as the car will overheat in the summer.  

 

if a punchout sheet works and ultimatley is more protection to you rad and eng. then you should be able to run it as long as its set back agaisnt the guides and not out on the front of the bumpber for aero purposes

[Tom Hampton]

Just for argument's sake (when isn't that enough on this forum?)....

 

Say, I start with a 0.125" mesh, and then use a bunch of small pieces of tape to cover over selected holes such that I end up with the exact same hole pattern and spacing as Steve's hole-punched sheet metal? 

 

If the version made with tape is compliant, why isn't the sheet metal version? 

[Tom Scheifler]

Or, since there is a minimum mesh size specified but not a maximum, let's say I start with a much larger mesh. Say 2.0". And then use metal tape with holes punched in it to produce an effectively identical product to what Steve described.

[wreckerboy]

Just for arguments sake let's look at the other side of this and ask: "Why was this dimension specified in the first place? What advantage is there to going either smaller or larger."

[Steve Scheifler]

If you look back to the weeks before the Daytona Runoffs you will see discussion of the old grill and tape rules and whether an aero advantage could be had. At least one notable team quit using their tape approach last year just to be safe. The new rules make it a lot easier to partially block the radiator on cool days if you don't run a thermostat.

 

Two versions shown below. One is clearly not a "wire mesh" but would probably pass the loose definition in the rules, the other looks like it may be wire under the coating and surely would pass.  But even a true wire mesh could be created from a wide flat wire which produces a screen more solid than void. Since tape is now allowed on the screen the wording for the screen itself should be simplified to avoid confusion, but instead they added that it can be of only one layer.  Two different committees maybe.

 

 

 

[Bench Racer]

Dear SMAC, please add the words "screen" and "mesh" with respective meaning into the SCCA GCR SMCS.

[Jim Drago]

Steve
That rad screen is non compliant to the current rule, with 100% certainity. Why? BC I made a rock screen out of "real by the rule mesh" after the "anti East Street, they must be up to something rule" was put in place. We built a very nice unit that was bordered with a metal ribbon to hold it together and to keep the contour of the front cover. Somehow, the area of the ribbon was roughly to the same area of the tape that we had been using in the past ) I felt then and feel now that the rockscreen we built was a better version of anything else out and 100% compliant and now we have six $150 paper weights) It met everything in the rule. But I sent it in and paid the money to get a ruling as I feared we could get protested after the last day of qualifying at the Runoffs in 13 and be forced to start DFL if we lost, a risk we couldn't afford to take. They ruled our screens non compliant and and asked us(SMAC/CRB to rewrite the rule. If for nothing else, that ribbon around the outside make that screen absolutely non compliant. I also dont believe you have a prayer with that metal version either, but that is another story. The entire argument is ridiculous, I have no issue with it.. but you asked. If protested or checked as they do at runoffs.. You lose that 99% of the time and lose all your times.