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Sebring 2016 Major Race 1


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#1
Richard Astacio

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  Sebring was a bit tough on this rookie, blew a diff in practice, crash in turn 1 qualifying #2 I was a bit overzealous reach the apex at around 96 MPH. 

Crashed turn 17 in race #1....Let me know your thoughts. You can start watching around 18:40

 

 

https://youtu.be/GOyiS7xWrks


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#2
David L

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was that your passenger window that broke, or the quarter glass?


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#3
DrDomm

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I bet it was water from the tires.

 

Tough to say who's fault. The car ahead was slow, but was going for the apex. 


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#4
Richard Astacio

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was that your passenger window that broke, or the quarter glass?

 It was water, at first I thought it was the quarter glass also. 


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#5
Richard Astacio

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I bet it was water from the tires.

 

Tough to say who's fault. The car ahead was slow, but was going for the apex. 

 

At first I thought it was the other drivers fault, however my coach watched the video and told me I should of anticipated his move. 

 

In hindsight I should of broken in a straight line and hit him straight on and my car would of been under control. ( I was told by another person)


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#6
FTodaro

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I would not be to hard on yourself, the other car really did over slow that corner you should not have been able to close that distance that fast. But as your coach said, you have to be prepared for anything. The good news is that you did not take him out. I have made this mistake. You will learn the drivers who over-slow the corners and use that knowledge to pass them at the exit.


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#7
Todd Lamb

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Welcome to SM!

 

From the video there's not really a question of who was at fault. You spun trying to avoid a car ahead that overslowed the corner and then ended up taking another car with you in the process. Not sure if other driver could have avoided or not, but in racing you rely on the car in front of you to maintain control in tight quarters. You needed to anticipate the closing rate better (brake lights are a telltale sign to help with this) and most certainly NOT hit the gold car ahead at any angle.

 

BUT: The whole thing could have been avoided with a little better car control, by recognizing the delay to throttle (while avoiding the gold car) and being ready with quick hands to countersteer. The delay in throttle meant the weight was not on the back tires to keep the car settled, and oversteer was inevitable but controllable. You have to think ahead of the "now" and anticipate what is about to happen.

 

More seat time will get you there - chalk it up to a learning experience. First time I was at Sebring I almost ate that wall too with huge entry oversteer. It was a looooong time ago, but I still remember it!


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#8
Jim Drago

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I usually try not to comment on these threads as it usually sounds a little preachy :) I agree with what Todd said above. I will add that most including myself have done that or worse. Most of this will be cured with more seat time. I realize that this is probably less of an answer than you would like to hear. Each time you sit in the car you will become more comfortable and more aware. Seat time will make your decision process much come quicker, more accurate and most likely you will be making them without thinking.
You were in that corner pretty hot and the other driver was in slower than expected which compounded the issue. After another 5-10 races you would not have had this issue IMO. Look at your team mate Anthony as an example, he has made tremendous strides in 3 seasons. It will come in time. You have a good car and a good team at your disposal, lean on them and take advantage of their experience whenever possible.

One thing to think about for next time... The inside pass at 16 set a lot of this up. Your car is very good, use it to your advantage. The inside pass at 16 was not the best move here, it killed your exit and speed all the way down the straight and let the gold car pull a long distance away. Sometimes it is best to check up your entry and maximize your exit and you would have gotten them both before entering 17..


Best of luck and glad to have you in SM
Jim


P.S. Where would I find one of these Miata quarter glasses you guys are speaking of ? :)
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#9
Richard Astacio

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Welcome to SM!

 

From the video there's not really a question of who was at fault. You spun trying to avoid a car ahead that overslowed the corner and then ended up taking another car with you in the process. Not sure if other driver could have avoided or not, but in racing you rely on the car in front of you to maintain control in tight quarters. You needed to anticipate the closing rate better (brake lights are a telltale sign to help with this) and most certainly NOT hit the gold car ahead at any angle.

 

BUT: The whole thing could have been avoided with a little better car control, by recognizing the delay to throttle (while avoiding the gold car) and being ready with quick hands to countersteer. The delay in throttle meant the weight was not on the back tires to keep the car settled, and oversteer was inevitable but controllable. You have to think ahead of the "now" and anticipate what is about to happen.

 

More seat time will get you there - chalk it up to a learning experience. First time I was at Sebring I almost ate that wall too with huge entry oversteer. It was a looooong time ago, but I still remember it!

 

Thanks for the feed back, I had to read your sentence a few times to understand it. Definitely a learning experience. 


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#10
Richard Astacio

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I usually try not to comment on these threads as it usually sounds a little preachy :) I agree with what Todd said above. I will add that most including myself have done that or worse. Most of this will be cured with more seat time. I realize that this is probably less of an answer than you would like to hear. Each time you sit in the car you will become more comfortable and more aware. Seat time will make your decision process much come quicker, more accurate and most likely you will be making them without thinking.
 

 Jim thanks for the feedback and it is exactly what I want to hear.

 

Everything I have done in life I have excelled, and excelled quickly....this is one thing that I have to be patient with.

I started racing in 2015 and this was probably my 9th race overall. I did not come up with karting or any other form of racing so I am learning every-time I go out. 

 

 After another 5-10 races you would not have had this issue IMO. Look at your team mate Anthony as an example, he has made tremendous strides in 3 seasons. It will come in time. You have a good car and a good team at your disposal, lean on them and take advantage of their experience whenever possible.

 

Yes Ademair and his crew are awesome, Elivan is a great driver and coach. I started track days with him and Ian (SCDA) and I am hooked. All I think about is racing......

 

One thing to think about for next time... The inside pass at 16 set a lot of this up. Your car is very good, use it to your advantage. The inside pass at 16 was not the best move here, it killed your exit and speed all the way down the straight and let the gold car pull a long distance away. Sometimes it is best to check up your entry and maximize your exit and you would have gotten them both before entering 17..
 

 

Excellent point, lesson learned! 


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#11
Bonemeister

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As the guy you took out with your spin in turn 17 , let me give you a couple of my thoughts.
I was pushing you down the back straight and you probably went into turn 17 faster than you were used to or comfortable with.
Maybe I should have given you a little more space on the entry to 17.
I apologize if I was pushing you or made you uncomfortable going into the turn. Sorry.
You came up on the gold car and appeared to hit your brakes, sending you into the spin.
Agree with the advice of the experts about car control etc,,but once your car was out of control, you needed to put
BOTH FEET IN.
This makes the car more predictable in a spin to the following car and keeps you from rolling backwards and killing your engine.
Greg Ira spun in front of me in turn 1 at Road Atlanta last year in E Prod and very predictably came to a stop in a straight line. I was able to drive around him with no harm and no foul. We also discussed it at the end of the race so I could get his take on what happened. I saw talking to him as a great learning opportunity. I will try to post that video.
Your car spun in turn 17 and then you rolled into my only escape route to the outside, as the following car.
Upon entry you needed to commit to taking the inside line from the gold car, but I looks like you lost your nerve and did not have the confidence to pass him. If he over slowed you needed to pass him.
Yes it is racing, but maybe I could have avoided you if you did not spin and then roll into my escape route.
As a consolation, David Murray told me he has driven turn 17 at Sebring thousands of times and feels he only did it "right" a few times.
I looked for your car the entire weekend in the paddock, but I could not find you. A little hello and an apology goes a long way. In race two I gave you a lot more space, and I think you spun into the lake at turn 13.
I am new to the SM community as well, and made a little contact in turn 5 in qualifying with a veteran SM racer. I made a special effort to find the racer and apologize. He said everyone had done what I did hundreds of times and what makes SM such a great class is the fact that I came to him, we discussed what I did wrong, and I apologized for customizing his car.
Hope you and your car will be back out soon.
Joe

#12
Richard Astacio

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As the guy you took out with your spin in turn 17 , let me give you a couple of my thoughts.
I was pushing you down the back straight and you probably went into turn 17 faster than you were used to or comfortable with.
Maybe I should have given you a little more space on the entry to 17.
I apologize if I was pushing you or made you uncomfortable going into the turn. Sorry.
You came up on the gold car and appeared to hit your brakes, sending you into the spin.
Agree with the advice of the experts about car control etc,,but once your car was out of control, you needed to put
BOTH FEET IN.
This makes the car more predictable in a spin to the following car and keeps you from rolling backwards and killing your engine.
Greg Ira spun in front of me in turn 1 at Road Atlanta last year in E Prod and very predictably came to a stop in a straight line. I was able to drive around him with no harm and no foul. We also discussed it at the end of the race so I could get his take on what happened. I saw talking to him as a great learning opportunity. I will try to post that video.
Your car spun in turn 17 and then you rolled into my only escape route to the outside, as the following car.
Upon entry you needed to commit to taking the inside line from the gold car, but I looks like you lost your nerve and did not have the confidence to pass him. If he over slowed you needed to pass him.
Yes it is racing, but maybe I could have avoided you if you did not spin and then roll into my escape route.
As a consolation, David Murray told me he has driven turn 17 at Sebring thousands of times and feels he only did it "right" a few times.
I looked for your car the entire weekend in the paddock, but I could not find you. A little hello and an apology goes a long way. In race two I gave you a lot more space, and I think you spun into the lake at turn 13.
I am new to the SM community as well, and made a little contact in turn 5 in qualifying with a veteran SM racer. I made a special effort to find the racer and apologize. He said everyone had done what I did hundreds of times and what makes SM such a great class is the fact that I came to him, we discussed what I did wrong, and I apologized for customizing his car.
Hope you and your car will be back out soon.
Joe

 

 

  Joe Thanks for the feedback, I do not think the speed was the factor since I have been practicing with a teammate prior, I just did not want to hit the gold car and thats what cause the entire situation and after reviewing the video and speaking with a few racer I agree it was car control.. 

 

 I apologize I went into to you, to be honest I did not know who the contact was with. I asked a few other racers and they did not know. My rear facing go pro was not working and my on forward facing camera did record but we did not see who it was. 

 

 Do you mind posting a pic of your car or pm me, next time we meet up, dinner or lunch will be on me! 

 

 As far as the car goes we fixed it and I was able to finish race#2 I think 46 place or so. I was with Sac racing near the staging area.

 I am actually heading out this morning to pick up a donor car to have spare parts. 


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#13
High Chair

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What Drago and Todd said are spot on.  There was nothing intentional and what happened is an unfortunate part of racing. Most of us at one time or another have been in each of those positions (the slower car, the overtaking car, and the car minding his on business) when things go wrong.  Just learn from it and move on.


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