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94-97 CRB wants your input

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#61
Sean - MiataCage

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Sean, please lose my number.  Go ahead and hit send on your nasty gram if you'd like.

 

 

I am genuinely curious how you got the idea that 1.8s are hard to tune.  You do realize they don't have trap doors, yes?

 

Ok Rob..... I tried to address you like a man and call you to have a conversation and not hide behind a keyboard and be a big internet tough guy, but ok we shall have it your way.

 

You win the internet Rob.... Good Job!


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#62
Bench Racer

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Guys, not Sean, Todd, Danny, Ralph, Brandon, Wheel or any other committee or board member, maybe we all should take it down a notch when the SMAC or CRB openly communicates on the site.


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#63
Brandon

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I've got the camera pictures from my builder showing a "nearly" 4HP increase w/o the plate.  I believe the actual number was 3.9HP.

We're approaching the limits of things with the plate and going from a 47 to 49 would be an improvement but minimally with respect to how the other cars have become developed (thinking VVT specifically coming into their own this year).

 

This was a "pro motor" with the best exhaust (Springfield Dyno) on the market and we tested 3 PCMs, two exhaust manifolds leaving only the intake as not being pursued for improvements (parts binning the manifold - not modifying it or anything, just finding the one that makes the most power).

 

Had 124.x HP on the new (2015) build, went to 125.7 with the SD exhaust, removing the plate put me just a tad over 130HP.

 

Just some more data points...

 

I just want to run some numbers.

 

The Throttle Body is 54mm in the center at it's smallest point.

 

45mm to 47mm was about 1.25 HP - 1.50 HP = .625 HP to .75 HP per mm larger opening on the restrictor plate in theory.

 

47mm to 54mm (No Plate) Throttle Body = 4.375 HP to 5.25 HP increase with no plate in theory using calculations from above. Nobody is getting 4 - 5 HP increase by pulling the plate.

 


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#64
Rob Burgoon

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Guys, not Sean, Todd, Danny or any other committee or board, maybe we all should take it down a notch when the SMAC or CRB openly communicates on the site.

 

Or not.  If someone on a board posts an editorial saying something odd then can't handle easy questions about what they just posted, I'm going to call them out on it.

 

I asked a simple question, Sean elected to go personal.

 

R "1.8 temperamental?  Who told you that?"

S Maybe i got confused with the driver of the 1.8's....."

 

But leaving Sean's issues aside, does anyone else feel that the 1.8 is difficult to keep tuned?


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#65
Ron Alan

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I'm going to guess here but maybe "tuned" in Seans view is more than just the motor?

 

Like the 1.6...as we reach the limits of Max legal power in the NA 1.8 everything becomes important. Once a NA1.8 motor makes power there is nothing magic about keeping it there(like the NB1.8)but getting to that top level in general is more difficult than the NB1.8. 

 

Brandons #'s above if from a dynojet are similar to what I've seen...but NOT every time a new motor gets built have i seen this. 

 

iMO...getting a 94-97 motor to make top power is more like the 1.6 in terms of everything should be looked at. The NB motors are not quite as dependent on the sum of all their parts because of the restrictor.

 

Rob weals a big poking stick...but in this case I agree there is no magic in maintaining power once you have it in a a 94-97 motor. 


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#66
Sean - MiataCage

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Or not.  If someone on a board posts an editorial saying something odd then can't handle easy questions about what they just posted, I'm going to call them out on it.

 

I asked a simple question, Sean elected to go personal.

 

R "1.8 temperamental?  Who told you that?"

S Maybe i got confused with the driver of the 1.8's....."

 

But leaving Sean's issues aside, does anyone else feel that the 1.8 is difficult to keep tuned?

 

I have no problem handling your easy question.  What I have a problem with was your attitude and delivery which is why I didn't answer it.

 

I also have never said the 1.8L was difficult to keep tuned.  Your putting words in my mouth now.

 

So.... Let me be crystal clear here for you.....  On top of the volunteering my time for this class and running 3 small companies, I try to be thorough and cordial  in my thoughts  when posting about the class.  The conversation about NA/NB differences and why people are not building more NA's comes up often.  Part of that discussion is about the "easy button" and that it is easier and cheaper to build an NB to the Nth degree.  When it comes to the 1.6L NA versus the NB the NA car is more temperamental and harder to keep running at the ragged edge.  So, I rarely ever have a NA 1.8L specific discussion and was just responding as I normally due about the basic NA/NB differences.  I shouldn't have put that one part of a much larger thought on the generic differences in the cars into my response. 

 

You can choose in life to be part of the problem or part of the solution.  I am choosing to be part of the solution.  It appear to me and others that your pot stirring posts and attitude about SCCA in general are not part of the solution.  Take that for what it's worth, I know I am not the first guy to say it to you.

 

So.... Again, you win the internet tough guy award.  I'm done dealing with you.


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#67
Rob Burgoon

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I have no problem handling your easy question.  What I have a problem with was your attitude and delivery which is why I didn't answer it.

 

I also have never said the 1.8L was difficult to keep tuned.  Your putting words in my mouth now.

 

So.... Let me be crystal clear here for you.....  On top of the volunteering my time for this class and running 3 small companies, I try to be thorough and cordial  in my thoughts  when posting about the class.  The conversation about NA/NB differences and why people are not building more NA's comes up often.  Part of that discussion is about the "easy button" and that it is easier and cheaper to build an NB to the Nth degree.  When it comes to the 1.6L NA versus the NB the NA car is more temperamental and harder to keep running at the ragged edge.  So, I rarely ever have a NA 1.8L specific discussion and was just responding as I normally due about the basic NA/NB differences.  I shouldn't have put that one part of a much larger thought on the generic differences in the cars into my response. 

 

You can choose in life to be part of the problem or part of the solution.  I am choosing to be part of the solution.  It appear to me and others that your pot stirring posts and attitude about SCCA in general are not part of the solution.  Take that for what it's worth, I know I am not the first guy to say it to you.

 

So.... Again, you win the internet tough guy award.  I'm done dealing with you.

 

I am part of the solution to the problem of misinformation being spread about the NA 1.8.  

 

You should be more careful about listing problems with the NA 1.6 as reasons why people don't build a NA 1.8.

 

If "1.8 temperamental?  Who told you that?" is troublesome for you in attitude and delivery, your skin may be a smidge translucent.

 

As a member of SMAC, you're representing the interests of the class.  As such, you need to check your ego and realize that people have good reason to be concerned if you appear misinformed.


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#68
Rob Burgoon

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Also, Sean, please stop trying to pick a fight, I'm not interested.


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#69
dstevens

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Guys, not Sean, Todd, Danny, Ralph, Brandon, Wheel or any other committee or board member, maybe we all should take it down a notch when the SMAC or CRB openly communicates on the site.

Dave I don't see where Rob has done anything to warrant sarcastic, passive aggressive and patronizing responses such as what Sean has given in this thread.   Sean's response in other matters pertaining to SMAC issues in other threads have been equally unprofessional.  Rob is certainly direct, even confrontational at times but I can't recall him ever personally insulting anyone here.    This isn't a personal business where everyone under you has to agree.  It's a melding of different opinions, personalities and approaches. That needs to be respected.  By all parties.  Disagreement and pointed questions are fine.  Dismissive, opaque responses from those in with a position such as the SMAC are not regardless of any sort of disclaimer one might put on a post.

 

Part of being in a position of authority in a volunteer organization such as club racing requires one to use tact and professionalism when quizzed or confronted on various issues.  Particularly when one does not agree.  Communicating with racers on this site is no different than communicating with them via email, in person or on the phone.  Responding with cheeky replies like "it's a secret" or "you won the Internet" doesn't cut it.  At that point it does more harm than good.  To both the poster and the org.



#70
Bench Racer

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Guys, not Sean, Todd, Danny, Ralph, Brandon, Wheel or any other committee or board member, maybe we all should take it down a notch when the SMAC or CRB openly communicates on the site.

Dave, this ^ post simple suggested is, we all should take it down a notch. Because if we each pick nits with post by the SMAC or CRB on this site they'll quit posting. I for one don't communicate well on sites. Some of you others don't either.


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