284 replies to this topic

[Danica Davison]

I like everything in Todds letter, especially the bar codes, which I believe SCCA National office may already be working on something like that.  But who would the contact steward be exactly?  Who do we want the person to be?  A steward that hasn't raced in 15 years? or do we want an experienced racer in another class?

[Rob Burgoon]

 or do we want an experienced racer in another class?

 

That sounds way better.  Should be a class with cars in it though.  Folks in classes with 3 entries might know even less than the stewards.

 

It's a shame SCCA doesn't have spec e30 or spec 944, those would be perfect to draw from.

[JRHille]

That sounds way better. Should be a class with cars in it though. Folks in classes with 3 entries might know even less than the stewards.

It's a shame SCCA doesn't have spec e30 or spec 944, those would be perfect to draw from.

SRF or SRF3?

[FTodaro]

Its asking a lot for some guy in another class to take that time out of his weekend to settle our beefs.   I agree that having someone who has had some recent racing experience would be a bonus. Ideas are easy putting them into action is hard.

[Rob Burgoon]

SRF or SRF3?

 

That would work!

[Rob Burgoon]

Its asking a lot for some guy in another class to take that time out of his weekend to settle our beefs.   I agree that having someone who has had some recent racing experience would be a bonus. Ideas are easy putting them into action is hard.

 

Only hard for the club that refuses to pay anyone.  Give them a free garage or entry or something.

[Johnny D]

Looking at the Nov Fastrack, Is it just me or are there a number of positions to be filled for Super Tour as well.

Data Technicians are already on the list of volunteers.

 

Make the position and they will come.

J~

[Topher]

I would encourage anyone with a similar sentiment to submit a letter or email to the CRB

 

The purpose of this letter is to encourage the SCCA to reconsider how car to car contact is handled in the club racing program.

If the CRB is not aware, there are a significant number of drivers who feel there is an unacceptably high rate of metal to metal contact during club races.

 Racers cannot police themselves, and local stewards have offered little assistance in solving the problem.

To illustrate: I was summoned to impound after an incident at the Majors race at Road Atlanta. The Tech Steward told the drivers involved that it was declared a ‘racing incident’ by the corner workers and that no further action would be taken.

He declined to review the in-car videos and said that a formal protest would have to be filed for any other action to be taken.

I did not pursue a protest because in my experience it is a waste of time and accomplishes nothing.  The steward strongly discouraged me from doing so and had already made up his mind without reviewing any evidence.

 A protest wasn’t going to change the outcome of the race. It wasn’t going to discourage poor decision making on track, and it certainly wasn’t going to pay to put my car back together.

The steward went on to say:  “This is spec racing. There is going to be contact. If you don’t like it, then go race with the Porsche Club.”

Is this attitude in line with the SCCA’s mission to provide a safe and fun environment for amateur racing competition?  I think not.

I recommend that the CRB expand the contact steward program (currently being trialed at the Super Tour) to all Majors and Regional races.

Additionally, a driver safety ranking or point system with subsequent penalties should be considered.

Without intervention from the CRB, I predict this issue will lead to declining membership as racers defect to competing organizations with stricter contact policies. 

[Rob Burgoon]

Please post video showing us where they touched you

[Topher]

Do I have to use the sexual harassment dolphin?

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=KU7AZ30CyCc

[Rob Burgoon]

Do I have to use the sexual harassment dolphin?

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=KU7AZ30CyCc

 

 

Ooh yeah.  Pretty rotten deal.  While I agree with the steward that there's a certain amount of contact that is part of a healthy spec class, that wasn't it.

[Peter Olivola]

I think it would be a good exercise to hear what others think of the actions of each of the three drivers, including suggestions on what they should have done differently.

 

6.11. RULES OF THE ROAD

6.11.1 On Course Driver Conduct

A. Drivers are responsible to avoid physical contact between cars on

the race track.

B. Each competitor has a right to racing room, which is generally

defined as sufficient space on the marked racing surface that under

racing conditions, a driver can maintain control of his car in close

quarters.

C. Drivers must respect the right of other competitors to racing room.

Abrupt changes in direction that impede or affect the path of

another car attempting to overtake or pass may be interpreted as

an effort to deprive a fellow competitor of the right to racing room.

D. The overtaking driver is responsible for the decision to pass another

car and to accomplish it safely. The overtaken driver is responsible

to be aware that he is being passed and not to impede or block the

overtaking car. A driver who does not use his rear view mirror or

who appears to be blocking another car attempting to pass may be

black flagged and/or penalized, as specified in Section 7.

[Bench Racer]

Peter, how about your view as a frequent race official.

[Peter Olivola]

I think the competitor community deserves an opportunity to express itself beforehand.

 

Peter, how about your view as a frequent race official.

[sentercut]

My .02 cents: you (Topher) got pointed to pass by pink lady, The white car looks like he came in too hot, it appears like he couldn't have cleared T1 without hitting you while Pink Lady saw the opening developing and went for it. White car hit you, jammed up pink ladys aggressive move and got pinched at high speed and all 3 of you were in the cat box. totally sucks, especially for you. 

 

I agree there should be more accountability in our class via point assessment, review, probation, whatever. If they defined some structure to it I believe it would influence individuals driving/racing manners and decisions long term and would curb the times where we make stupid decisions, and encourage cleaner racing. I have made my share of stupid maneuvers, and sometimes it is difficult for a bunch of strong ego ed/type A/race car drivers to admit fault. An objective standardized structure, even if very simple, would help in these type situations, and probably help the class growth. 

 

I am surprised they didn't even look at video. That seems arrogant and lazy at best. If there was some simple standard system they could have easily collected the videos, and determined on the spot or later a penalty/point(s) for contact, racing incident, or whatever. While I greatly appreciate and love the workers and all they provide, I do not think that at real time speed, a decision can be made on the severity of an incident. 

 

Last thing and then i will shut up, but I have watched 100's of videos of Majors & regional races the past few years, and it is not difficult to figure out who to stay away from on track. There are some guys in all classes and series that no one wants to be racing with. An accountability system would either run off those DB's or they would dial it down and clean up their driving. 

 

Again, just my 2.

[Bench Racer]

I think the competitor community deserves an opportunity to express itself beforehand.

 

I do not believe the competitor community will express themselves any more than the community has a desire to write paper and have the suggestion to pull the paper because it's a racing incident. I watched the video a couple times and I viewed two separate incident's. After the wave by.

[Peter Olivola]

Here are the penalties available:

7.2. RANGE OF PENALTIES

In increasing order of severity, the range of penalties is as follows:

A. Fine ($1-$99)

B. Reprimand

NOTE: A reprimand against an SCCA member shall be noted in his

license file.

C. Fine ($100-$249)

D. Loss of event points

E. Fine ($250)

NOTE: All fines must be in whole dollar amounts only.

F. Loss of Time, Lap, or Finishing Position

G. Probation of competition privileges

Although the probation is effective immediately, the probation period

does not begin until the license, as well as any imposed fine, is received

by the Chairman SOM or the National Office. Any member on probation

must notify the event Race Director or Chief Steward prior to his

first on track session or beginning his assigned official’s responsibilities.

Failure to notify the Race Director or Chief Steward is a violation

of probation.

1. Length of Probation

Probation may be up to 12 months; or it may be specified as a

number of SCCA Club Racing event days or SCCA Club Racing

event sanctions.

2. Term(s) of Probation

A driver on probation may be restricted to competing in his Division;

limited to competing in certain types of levels of events; or

required to perform specified event related activities, including

attending an SCCA Drivers’ School. Participating in SCCA Practice

Days or SCCA events that are not sanctioned by SCCA Club Racing

will not fulfill probation.

3. Violation of Probation

Failing to comply with the probation terms may result in further

penalties assigned by a review committee appointed to hear the

violation, by Driver or Official Review, or by the SOM at the event

where the violation occurs.

H. Disqualification

An entrant, driver, or car may be disqualified from a competition or an

event. Rights to awards in the competition or event are automatically

forfeited.

I. Suspension of license privileges

SCCA license privileges for a driver, crew, or official may be suspended

for a period of time not to exceed 12 months. A license holder whose

privileges are suspended must immediately surrender his license to the

Chairman of the SOM, review committee, or Court of Appeals. While

the suspension is effective immediately, the suspension period does not

begin until the license, as well as any imposed fine, is received by the

Chairman of the SOM, review committee, or the National Office.

A member whose Competition License has been suspended shall

not participate in a Club Racing event using any other grade or form

of competition license. When the suspension is the result of a noncompliant

vehicle, the infraction shall be noted in the Vehicle Logbook.

The suspension document for a Competition License holder will note

whether a member whose license privileges have been suspended may

participate in further Club Racing events in another capacity using

another type or grade of license.

J. Loss of accrued points

A competitor may be penalized all points accrued during the current

season.

K. Expulsion from SCCA

A member may be expelled from the SCCA as provided in the SCCA

Bylaws.

[Peter Olivola]

More penalty information:

7.3. MULTIPLE PENALTIES

Multiple penalties may be imposed. In addition, penalties may be consecutive

(for example, 2 month suspension followed by 6 month probation).

Both suspension and probation, each for the maximum allowable term,

may be imposed for a single violation.

7.4. PENALTY POINTS

A. Penalties assessed by the SOM or the Court of Appeals accumulate

points according to the following schedule:

1. Fine ($1 - $99) no points

2. Reprimand 1 point

3. Fine ($100 - $249) 1 point

4. Loss of event points 1 point

5. Fine ($250) 2 points

6. Loss of time, lap, or finishing position 2 points

7. Probation of SCCA competition privileges 3 points

8. Disqualification 4 points

9. Suspension of SCCA competition privileges 6 points

10. Loss of accrued championship or series points 7 points

B. Penalties imposed by the Race Director or Chief Steward do not

incur penalty points. If a Chief Steward’s Action is protested and

the protest is disallowed (upholding the Chief Steward’s Action),

the SOM may, at their discretion, assign penalty points as listed

above.

C. When multiple penalties result from a single action, only the most

severe penalty accrues points.

D. Automatic penalties are imposed according to the following

schedule:

Condition Automatic Penalty

11-14 points accumulated in consecutive 3 year period

Probation for 6 months or 6 events determined by Divisional Executive Steward

15 or more accumulated in consecutive 3 year period

Suspension of competition privileges for 6 months

Invalid Statement of Facts Affidavit

Event disqualification, 60 day suspension of competition privileges, and 6 penalty points

Refusing to allow teardown in Mechanical Protest,Request for Action, or Chief Steward’s Action

Event disqualification, 6 month suspension of competition privileges, $250 fine, and 6 penalty points

Non-Compliance in the following classes:

Formula Enterprise

Spec Racer Ford

Enterprises Sports Racer

FE: see 9.1.1.I.19

SRF: see 9.1.8.E.T

ESR: see 9.1.8.H.18

NOTES:

-Penalties caused by accumulated penalty points do not themselves result in further points.

-Penalty points expire 3 calendar years from the date they were incurred.

[38bfast]

Something must be done for sure. Way too much metal to metal and no one at fault.

[Tom Sager]

Something must be done for sure. Way too much metal to metal and no one at fault.

 

Yes.  So it's March 2017.  Should we assume that the requests late last year for better review and enforcement practices won't result in any changes this year?