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Is it time for an On Track Compliance Chief (TCC)

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#241
FTodaro

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Frank, did the SCCA not start some sort of contact procedure on the Super Tour. I remember someone punting another car entering a corner and the car doing the punting was DQ'ed.

Yes, but it is not a "contact impound" Like NASA and i am talking about regional racing where we are supposed to be mentoring drivers.


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#242
Danny Steyn

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Danny as far as I know this is what we asked for last year, by the SMAC and by letters,

 

Can we do a test program at least?

 

New letter submitted for discussion at our next meeting. Wheel, Peter Olivola, Jim Creighton, your thoughts on this process???


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#243
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A starter would be, impound all Spec Miata. That is usually 30 minutes IIRC.

 

Next all with ANY contact, communication required with each other and if either not listening to each other, the contact parties be held in impound until a Steward has arrived and have continued communication.

 

Penalty per GCR.  Contact note in logbooks. If no show to impound, no show impound note in logbook.

 

If no show had contact, penalty per GCR and added penalty for no show to impound.

 

Thoughts?


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#244
Todd Lamb

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New letter submitted for discussion at our next meeting. Wheel, Peter Olivola, Jim Creighton, your thoughts on this process???

 

Yes we did request this from the CRB last year. Beating a dead horse. They did not agree that this was necessary or a good idea, apparently. All way above the SMAC pay grade unfortunately.


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#245
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Todd, anything you allowed/care to share as to why the CRB didn't deem it t be a good idea?

 

Folks, with Todd's comment, maybe it's time WE (as Danny indicated) start a serious letter campaign sort of like a parity campaign.

 

If any other fender class within the SCCA had similar contact to Spec Miata, the CRB would immediately get involved with something similar to what WERE looking for. Agree, first another fender the class would require similar close competition. Example the Daytona Runoffs, penalties were handed out without driver written paper.


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#246
Todd Lamb

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Todd, anything you allowed/care to share as to why the CRB didn't deem it t be a good idea?

 

The SMAC is not given any info or feedback on our suggestions. The CRB either implements or doesn't.


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#247
Rob Burgoon

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The SMAC is not given any info or feedback on our suggestions. The CRB either implements or doesn't.

 

Hooray for the HOA.


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#248
Jamz14

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Why do you guys need the SCCA to bless? I get why this would be preferred, but can't you implement your own compliance program over and above whatever the CRB decides? An agreed upon honor system of self/class policing?

 

You might be able to imagine and predict the official response from the SCCA. If they went along with this they would have to admit deficiencies in how they handle contact. So what are the odds of anyone admitting they don't already do a good job and have procedures in place to handle?


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#249
Tom Sager

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Why do you guys need the SCCA to bless? I get why this would be preferred, but can't you implement your own compliance program over and above whatever the CRB decides? An agreed upon honor system of self/class policing?

 

You might be able to imagine and predict the official response from the SCCA. If they went along with this they would have to admit deficiencies in how they handle contact. So what are the odds of anyone admitting they don't already do a good job and have procedures in place to handle?

 

We have that now with the current protest system in place in SCCA.  Still believe we need and would benefit from a mandatory self-report system in SCCA similar to NASA procedure.  Many incidents are best handled with drivers talking to each other and the self report rule promotes that. 


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#250
Jamz14

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We have that now with the current protest system in place in SCCA.  Still believe we need and would benefit from a mandatory self-report system in SCCA similar to NASA procedure.  Many incidents are best handled with drivers talking to each other and the self report rule promotes that. 

And my point is that nothing prevents you or SCCA drivers from implementing a NASA-esque program.


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#251
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Yes we did request this from the CRB last year. Beating a dead horse. They did not agree that this was necessary or a good idea, apparently. All way above the SMAC pay grade unfortunately.

So be it, we had many people fed up with the amount of contact last year after a few early Majors, I and others had considered doing another Petition. It was signaled that we should work through the system and ask for changes.

 

 

I guess the members requests and opinions are not that important. I guess i can protest with my pocket book or lack there of spending money for events.

 

I am going to write another letter anyway.

 

I see no down side to a test program at the regional level.


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#252
Brian Tone

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Yes, but it is not a "contact impound" Like NASA and i am talking about regional racing where we are supposed to be mentoring drivers.


This past weekend at VIR I had contact with another car (video here: https://youtu.be/idHMm6UP6sk) and at the end of the race as we were coming off the track I was handed a card directing me to the chief steward located in impound. He came over and told me that the corner workers had called in 'car to car' contact and he wanted my self and the other driver to give him both sides and show him video of the incident.

The steward then explained options to me as far as protests etc (I was on the receiving end) and didn't release either of us until the drivers had spoken to each other and either decided to protest or not. I'm not one to throw paper over a 31st finishing order and though I think the other guy blew the corner there wasn't anything to benefit from an official protest of any kind. Upon telling this to the chief steward he released both drivers from impound.

It was good to see that the race directors and stewards were doing their part and being pro-active in identifying contact, and helping reduce future contact. I'm all for mandatory impound for car to car contact as called in by the workers, hopefully the trend will continue and can help keep everyone from doing unnecessary body work.
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#253
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Brian there is no reason that your experience cannot be repeated at all levels of racing. I am sure that both drivers took something away from the experience rather than one party thinking it was not me, attitude.


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#254
av8tor

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Honestly, I am sick and tired of Spec Miata being bumper cars.  I raced my brand new car at RRR two weekends ago and it took a beating for absolutely no reason.  I actually was dragging one driver out back for a little introduction to desert racing rules, when he broke down crying and apologized for hitting me (twice). Learn how to drive or go get a SRF.  


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#255
callumhay

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This is my perspective as a guy who has options on how to spend his disposable dollars for a weekend of fun. SCCA racing is amazingly exhilarating and challenging. As a guy who has no aspiration or ability to make a living in racing it is very difficult to accept the trade off of car damage for something that is meant to be fun. In addition the vision of cars (in all classes) being carted off in various stages of crumple-ization (I made that word up) is not something that family or non racers take kindly to as observers for the weekend. Trust me, saying to the wife to "not worry because that won't happen to me" does not pass the BS sniffer of my wife and I presume 99pct of non racing spouses. It is likely a different perspective for the highly skilled racers who generally are working with the same individuals at the front, but I imagine can be frustrating for them when they are catching the slow drivers. Meaning, no car contact would be good for all. While SM is the most popular class in SCCA, I believe that it would be over subscribed consistently if SCCA could tackle the issue of car contact. Certainly at a regional level, I think that there is potential. I think if there was some way to measure how many people choose something else than SCCA because of car contact, that that would be a starting point. There are tons of opportunities to get on track and although they are not technically racing, those events at least in Florida typically sell out. Keeping the class popular and at a high caliber needs to keep the customers coming in who are happy to spend their dispo-dollars. The young racers who have bigger aspirations will likely move on through SM to bigger and better things. The people who are doing this for fun ultimately have the most control on how great an experience it is. I think it is possible to improve things for all with a better handle on what to do about car contact.
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#256
Danica Davison

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Honestly, I am sick and tired of Spec Miata being bumper cars.  I raced my brand new car at RRR two weekends ago and it took a beating for absolutely no reason.  I actually was dragging one driver out back for a little introduction to desert racing rules, when he broke down crying and apologized for hitting me (twice). Learn how to drive or go get a SRF.

 

Lol I actually got a good laugh out of this


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#257
Danica Davison

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The club just needs to get with the times and go electronic.  Supply all of the regions with a Microsoft surfaces (or something similar) and log everything in there of every driver.  Instances with contact, and add all driver statements, corner worker statements, etc. That way, the next weekend...when the same idiot goes and stacks some else up, the stewards already know this guy is a problem.  Adopting the NASA rule where all drivers with contact are impounded is SO easy to implement.  Literally just send an email to the chiefs to do it...its that simple. You cant expect the stewards to know what happened in prior weekends at different tracks of the country so they probably handle all of these situations as the driver's first times. Stewards can look at their fancy MS Surfaces and be like, "Hey corner workers, keep a close eye on that Jim Drago #2 car.  He has been stackin shit up a lot lately."  And its that simple, just pull the trigger. 

 

Yeah yeah ... there are points on licenses... but if they treat them like its their first incident every time...they wont have any.  And don't tell me the club doesn't have money to do it, cause that is BS too. Maybe not all of the regions have $$ to throw around ... but the club as a whole has plenty for a NFP.  Hell, maybe adopt it at the majors/Super tour first.  So that way they only have to buy a few iPads/Surfaces and it just travels with majors staff to new tracks.


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#258
Rob Burgoon

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The club just needs to get with the times and go electronic.  Supply all of the regions with a Microsoft surfaces (or something similar) and log everything in there of every driver.  Instances with contact, and add all driver statements, corner worker statements, etc. That way, the next weekend...when the same idiot goes and stacks some else up, the stewards already know this guy is a problem.  Adopting the NASA rule where all drivers with contact are impounded is SO easy to implement.  Literally just send an email to the chiefs to do it...its that simple. You cant expect the stewards to know what happened in prior weekends at different tracks of the country so they probably handle all of these situations as the driver's first times. Stewards can look at their fancy MS Surfaces and be like, "Hey corner workers, keep a close eye on that Jim Drago #2 car.  He has been stackin shit up a lot lately."  And its that simple, just pull the trigger. 

 

Yeah yeah ... there are points on licenses... but if they treat them like its their first incident every time...they wont have any.  And don't tell me the club doesn't have money to do it, cause that is BS too. Maybe not all of the regions have $$ to throw around ... but the club as a whole has plenty for a NFP.  Hell, maybe adopt it at the majors/Super tour first.  So that way they only have to buy a few iPads/Surfaces and it just travels with majors staff to new tracks.

 

Ever been roped into doing tech support for someone old enough to be a greatgrandparent?  That's what you're dealing with.  The SCCA stewards would feel safer with a Rolodex.


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#259
Sean - MiataCage

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The club just needs to get with the times and go electronic.  Supply all of the regions with a Microsoft surfaces (or something similar) and log everything in there of every driver.  Instances with contact, and add all driver statements, corner worker statements, etc. That way, the next weekend...when the same idiot goes and stacks some else up, the stewards already know this guy is a problem.  Adopting the NASA rule where all drivers with contact are impounded is SO easy to implement.  Literally just send an email to the chiefs to do it...its that simple. You cant expect the stewards to know what happened in prior weekends at different tracks of the country so they probably handle all of these situations as the driver's first times. Stewards can look at their fancy MS Surfaces and be like, "Hey corner workers, keep a close eye on that Jim Drago #2 car.  He has been stackin shit up a lot lately."  And its that simple, just pull the trigger. 

 

Yeah yeah ... there are points on licenses... but if they treat them like its their first incident every time...they wont have any.  And don't tell me the club doesn't have money to do it, cause that is BS too. Maybe not all of the regions have $$ to throw around ... but the club as a whole has plenty for a NFP.  Hell, maybe adopt it at the majors/Super tour first.  So that way they only have to buy a few iPads/Surfaces and it just travels with majors staff to new tracks.

 

In my opinion, this is spot on.......  There is zero business reason why SCCA is not working towards this as a solution.  It has been brought up multiple times in multiple venues to multiple people and we are still no closer to getting this going.   Brian G at Motorsports Reg already has something that works, but for whatever reason it doesn't seem to me like SCCA wants to consider this (electronic) as a viable option.   The couple of times I have brought it up the pushback I get is that some of our older stewards and volunteers don't know how to use tablets and don't want to have to learn something new.    What a complete croc of sh&*........  The average 2 year old can operate a tablet, but we can't ask our stewards to move into the future and use them?

 

If its a funding issue, say its a funding issue..... I promise its not a fading issue, plus Drago is making so much money on this site I am sure he would pony up and sponsor tablets for everyone.... :)

 

I have no doubt that once we get a new president, we will get some kind of survey that asks how to make racing better or how to increase entries.   In my mind it is simple......

 

1. Get a handle on contact.  Short term - change the impound policy.  This can be done in 30 days or less.

2. Get a handle on contact. - Implement electronic log books that support the above impound policies.

3. Put more fun back into the racing. We are spending a lot of money to do this, we should be having a ton of fun.  I'm talking about off track stuff from the point of entry to the facility to parking to sponsors, to involving crew members and spouses etc, etc, etc.

 

This is your club and SCCA should be supporting your wants and needs.    Please start submitting letters again to CRB about contact and if you believe electronic is the way to go, then add that in there as well.

 

Sean 


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#260
John Nesbitt

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The club just needs to get with the times and go electronic.  Supply all of the regions with a Microsoft surfaces (or something similar) and log everything in there of every driver.  Instances with contact, and add all driver statements, corner worker statements, etc. That way, the next weekend...when the same idiot goes and stacks some else up, the stewards already know this guy is a problem.  Adopting the NASA rule where all drivers with contact are impounded is SO easy to implement.  Literally just send an email to the chiefs to do it...its that simple. You cant expect the stewards to know what happened in prior weekends at different tracks of the country so they probably handle all of these situations as the driver's first times. Stewards can look at their fancy MS Surfaces and be like, "Hey corner workers, keep a close eye on that Jim Drago #2 car.  He has been stackin shit up a lot lately."  And its that simple, just pull the trigger. 

 

Yeah yeah ... there are points on licenses... but if they treat them like its their first incident every time...they wont have any.  And don't tell me the club doesn't have money to do it, cause that is BS too. Maybe not all of the regions have $$ to throw around ... but the club as a whole has plenty for a NFP.  Hell, maybe adopt it at the majors/Super tour first.  So that way they only have to buy a few iPads/Surfaces and it just travels with majors staff to new tracks.

 

 

This concept (incident tracking across events) has been tried a number of times.  The generic name is 'Red Book'.  It invariably founders, for one or more of the following reasons:

 

1.  The person(s) pushing the implementation (usually the Executive Steward or the Chairman of the Stewards Program) cycles out after their term of office, and the new person has no interest in pursuing the initiative.

 

2.  Resistance from event officials (i.e. older/old-line stewards), who simply chose not to participate.  There is (presently) no real sanction against this sort of behavior  (see also: Florida).

 

3.  The sheer volume of incidents at larger/more ‘eventful’ events overwhelms the process.  (Operating stewards are often on a very tight operating schedule.)

 

4.  Lack of consistency across events/stewards.  One steward’s ‘contact’ is another steward’s ‘racing incident’.

 

5.  There are real questions of fairness, and of concern about painting targets on individuals.

 

 

It is not so much a technology problem as it is an organizational problem.  This lack of consistency and paper trail across events is an artifact of Club Racing’s history, culture, and lack of a real and consistent central authority.

 

I am not trying to rain on anyone’s parade.  I think that this would be an excellent idea.  It has worked for limited spans of time and under local conditions.  We do this informally at Summit Point (i.e. track particular actors).  The problem is that incidents elsewhere are invisible to us.

 

This is an excellent concept.  There are really significant implementation challenges.






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