Jump to content

Photo

Toyos or Hoosiers?

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1
Carl

Carl

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 75 posts
  • Location:United States
  • Region:California
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:38

It seems that in California I have a choice racing with SCCA to use either Hoosiers or Toyos (SMT is strong in NorCal and available in SoCal).  With that option being available and being a cost conscious racer I am wondering which tires are more durable.  I am no where near the pointy end of the pack so maximum performance is not particularly important.  Toyos obviously also give me the option to crossover to NASA.  

 

Anyone have thoughts they are willing to share?  



#2
Danny Steyn

Danny Steyn

    Zulu rain warrior

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,439 posts
  • Location:Fort Lauderdale
  • Region:FL
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:39

IMHO Toyos are more durable, but you will go faster on Hoosiers. In the rain, the Hooiser H2O is LIGHT years better than the Toyo RA1, at Road Atlanta it is more than 10 seconds a lap faster in similar conditions. But it wears out in one very quickly. 

 

So the question is simple, do you want to go fast, or you want to limit your spending?


Danny
Danny Steyn Racing | DSR YouTube Channel
Danny Steyn Photography | Adept Studios | Ocean MachineryOPM AutosportsRossini Racing Engines | G-Loc Brakes | 

 

2 x SCCA Runoffs Champ | 1 x NASA National Champ | 6 x June Sprints Champ | 10 x ARRC Champ

1 x SCCA Super Sweep | 2 x Triple Crown | 4 x Hoosier Super Tour Points Champ | 6 x Majors Points Champ | 5 x SEDiv Driver of the Year

 

 

June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata Majors Winner - BFG Supertour Winner -

#3
Ron Alan

Ron Alan

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,732 posts
  • Location:Northern CA
  • Car Year:1995

It seems that in California I have a choice racing with SCCA to use either Hoosiers or Toyos (SMT is strong in NorCal and available in SoCal).  With that option being available and being a cost conscious racer I am wondering which tires are more durable.  I am no where near the pointy end of the pack so maximum performance is not particularly important.  Toyos obviously also give me the option to crossover to NASA.  

 

Anyone have thoughts they are willing to share?  

Being a Norcal guy who runs(rents) cars in both SCCA and NASA, its not even a toss up. You will get twice the competitive life out of Toyo's and 90% of the field(SCCA regional) are on them. The Hoosier is the Majors tire and we have one event a year locally. When the region went back to Toyo's(RR's)a few years back a few complained they wanted to burn up the Hoosiers they had so the region kept a SM class(vs SMT).Now the only people running SM are those who want to be on the podium in a 4 car field mixed in among 40 SMT and SSM cars!

 

So no one thinks I'm Hoosier bashing(I'm not), yes, they are a great tire and slightly faster than the RR(<1 sec)with the same top driver. They do inspire a ton of confidence in those outside the top 5-10 and easier to drive fast. But they tend to heat cycle out(lose grip) long before they lose rubber. The RR stays pretty consistant beyond its first cycle maintaining good grip until cording or very close to it.


  • Alberto likes this

Ron

RAmotorsports

 

Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#4
Todd Green

Todd Green

    Veteran Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 569 posts
  • Location:SLC
  • Region:Utah
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:60

IMHO Toyos are more durable, but you will go faster on Hoosiers. In the rain, the Hooiser H2O is LIGHT years better than the Toyo RA1, at Road Atlanta it is more than 10 seconds a lap faster in similar conditions. But it wears out in one very quickly. 

 

I'd just temper Danny's comment with in my experience the Toyo is faster in light rain.  No doubt the Hoosier is much better in a monsoon.  So I look at it as the Toyo is an "intermediate" tire and the Hoosier is the "full wet".  This is also because you'll absolutely ruin Hoosiers if you get caught out in drying conditions, whereas you can at least lap and reuse the Toyo if the rain picks up.  But if you can afford new Hoosiers for every rain race, then go for it.  Most of us aren't that lucky.


NASA Utah SM Director

We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Donor - Made PayPal donation Endurance race winner - Any endurance race wins Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata

#5
Bench Racer

Bench Racer

    Different strokes for different folks : )

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,508 posts
  • Location:Wauwatosa, WI
  • Region:Milwaukee
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:14

:twocents: from another corner of the world. Anyone feel free to correct me.

 

Because Toyo's have less stiction/adhesion/gumball grip than Hoosier SM7 you may learn to drive better quicker. Because of the lack of stiction you may/will learn quicker to react to and control your car. Because of the lack of stiction and in your learning (car set up) curve your set up knowledge will be learned quicker. Oh, and because of longer tire life/more heat cycles, for a cost conscious racer your tire bill will be less. 

 

Mostly, Have Fun :bigsquaregrin:


Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#6
wreckerboy

wreckerboy

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 155 posts
  • Location:Mrs Orcutt's driveway
  • Region:NJ
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:53
It matters not if the Toyos are faster or slower than the Hoo Hoo's because if everybody is on the same tire they will be at the same relative speed.

As a WDCR-SSM racer I've been on the RA1 exclusively. They are long lasting and consistent (30-40 heat cycles), forgiving, and easy to drive at their (relatively lower) limits. The Hoosiers are referred to quite rightly as "the Purple Crack" and are flat out wonderful, but don't have anywhere near the fast life expectancy. When I was exploring a possible switch to SM last year, the cost of a set of Hoosiers that fell off after about eight cycles was a big factor in staying in SSM.
  • pitbull113 likes this
Rob Myles | "I didn't lose, I got out-painted!"
Hero To The Momentum Challenged
WDCR SSM #30

#7
Jim Drago

Jim Drago

    East Street Racing / 2 Time National Champion

  • Administrators
  • 6,566 posts
  • Location:Memphis, Tn
  • Region:Mid South
  • Car Year:2005
  • Car Number:2

It matters not if the Toyos are faster or slower than the Hoo Hoo's because if everybody is on the same tire they will be at the same relative speed.

As a WDCR-SSM racer I've been on the RA1 exclusively. They are long lasting and consistent (30-40 heat cycles), forgiving, and easy to drive at their (relatively lower) limits. The Hoosiers are referred to quite rightly as "the Purple Crack" and are flat out wonderful, but don't have anywhere near the fast life expectancy. When I was exploring a possible switch to SM last year, the cost of a set of Hoosiers that fell off after about eight cycles was a big factor in staying in SSM.

 

ohh boy.. we are up to 30-40 now  :wacko:


East Street Auto Parts
Jim@Eaststreet.com
800 700 9080

NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner Hoosier Super Tour points Champion - Hoosier Super Tour points Champion ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata BFG Supertour Winner - Majors Winner - Circuit of the Americas Winner - We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America

#8
Bench Racer

Bench Racer

    Different strokes for different folks : )

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,508 posts
  • Location:Wauwatosa, WI
  • Region:Milwaukee
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:14

ohh boy.. we are up to 30-40 now  :wacko:

It's all dependent. :yep:


Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#9
ScratchRob13

ScratchRob13

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 22 posts
  • Location:CT
  • Region:NER
  • Car Year:2001
  • Car Number:13
Out of curiosity, what are the front runner Hoosier guys doing heat cycle wise before they chuck them?

Personally I run them until corded, as that's my regional racing budget.... I try to have two sets of Hoosiers, the newer set gets put on for the race, qualifier and qualifier race usually gets older set. I noticed after about 8 heat cycles they aren't as grippy, but no where near the drop off of the SM6. Can hold my own until the cords start poking through. I'm getting 14+ cycles usually.

I double dip in SM and STU, so stretching the tire helps a lot with budgeting.

'01 Miata SM #13

SCCA NER

 


#10
wreckerboy

wreckerboy

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 155 posts
  • Location:Mrs Orcutt's driveway
  • Region:NJ
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:53

ohh boy.. we are up to 30-40 now  :wacko:


That's pretty much what I've always said, Jim. Nothing new here, no outlandish claims. Just facts based upon years of experience running towards the front. I flip on them on the rims about every 15 cycles or so, and they work.
Rob Myles | "I didn't lose, I got out-painted!"
Hero To The Momentum Challenged
WDCR SSM #30

#11
Jim Drago

Jim Drago

    East Street Racing / 2 Time National Champion

  • Administrators
  • 6,566 posts
  • Location:Memphis, Tn
  • Region:Mid South
  • Car Year:2005
  • Car Number:2

That's pretty much what I've always said, Jim. Nothing new here, no outlandish claims. Just facts based upon years of experience running towards the front. I flip on them on the rims about every 15 cycles or so, and they work.

never saw half of that and I ran them for years as well... 


East Street Auto Parts
Jim@Eaststreet.com
800 700 9080

NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner Hoosier Super Tour points Champion - Hoosier Super Tour points Champion ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata BFG Supertour Winner - Majors Winner - Circuit of the Americas Winner - We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America

#12
Steve Scheifler

Steve Scheifler

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,816 posts

To recap prior discussions, it depends a lot on the tracks you run, the length of your sessions, how close to the true limits of the tires you are running them, and of course what you define as an acceptable drop-off in performance. Those last two in particular are typically underestimated by people not running at the front of the best contested events.

Which is not to say that there isn't a significant difference in cost effectiveness between Hoosiers and the various Toyos or other options. I just don't think it proves much to compare usable heat cycles across very different drivers and circumstances.
Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record.

#13
Danny Steyn

Danny Steyn

    Zulu rain warrior

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,439 posts
  • Location:Fort Lauderdale
  • Region:FL
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:39

With regard to the life of the SM7 that we run now, at the front of the 4-day Majors events, most of the front runners are going through at least one set of stickers a weekend, sometimes two. Sure they can run many more heat cycles but you may be sacrificing a tenth here or there, and at the front, every tenth counts.

 

I absolutely agree that the Toyo is the cheaper tire to run, no question. The fall off per heat cycle is less than the Hoosier.

 

Interestingly, I prefer the RA1 as the rain tire as it is so sketchy compared to the H20 that you really have to grow a set if you want to go fast on the RA-1 in a monsoon, whereas with the H2O, pretty much everyone feels like God on that tire in the wet!. Furthermore that RA-1 pumps way less water, which means that if you are the following car, you can actually see where you are going, and get up to the bumper of the cars ahead, which is often not the case with the H20 on a really wet track, you are often driving blind behind the cars ahead of you as you get close to their bumper. Despite this, I suspect that most would prefer the H20 as the rain tire for the confidence it inspires.

 

However we got Zero trackside support from Toyo, lots of trackside support from Hoosier. Personally I can see the merits of both tires.


Danny
Danny Steyn Racing | DSR YouTube Channel
Danny Steyn Photography | Adept Studios | Ocean MachineryOPM AutosportsRossini Racing Engines | G-Loc Brakes | 

 

2 x SCCA Runoffs Champ | 1 x NASA National Champ | 6 x June Sprints Champ | 10 x ARRC Champ

1 x SCCA Super Sweep | 2 x Triple Crown | 4 x Hoosier Super Tour Points Champ | 6 x Majors Points Champ | 5 x SEDiv Driver of the Year

 

 

June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata Majors Winner - BFG Supertour Winner -

#14
Rob Burgoon

Rob Burgoon

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,465 posts
  • Location:San Diego
  • Car Year:1995
  • Car Number:91

With the toyos sometimes I put on a set of stickers, and then go just about exactly as fast as the old set.  Great feature in a tire, less so when you think you're about to buy a win and get disappointed, haha.


Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations!

#15
Danny Steyn

Danny Steyn

    Zulu rain warrior

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,439 posts
  • Location:Fort Lauderdale
  • Region:FL
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:39

As was mentioned several times, the choice between stickers and cords can be pretty track specific. At the inaugural event at Dominion Raceway this weekend, I practiced and qualified on worn RR's. Was fastest in practice by 0.7s, Qualified   on 5HC, but never got a clean lap with NASA's mixed class racing on a tight track.

 

So in an experiment, I decided to go to stickers for main race and was immediately slower. Absolutely could not hang with Ryan Fisher.

 

For Sunday I went back the old tires, qualified on pole, and was able to handily lead the race until traffic skunked me with two laps to go. In the heat of the day (track surface well over 150 degrees) on 7HC Toyos, ran almost a full second faster than I did on stickers the previous day in slightly cooler conditions.


Danny
Danny Steyn Racing | DSR YouTube Channel
Danny Steyn Photography | Adept Studios | Ocean MachineryOPM AutosportsRossini Racing Engines | G-Loc Brakes | 

 

2 x SCCA Runoffs Champ | 1 x NASA National Champ | 6 x June Sprints Champ | 10 x ARRC Champ

1 x SCCA Super Sweep | 2 x Triple Crown | 4 x Hoosier Super Tour Points Champ | 6 x Majors Points Champ | 5 x SEDiv Driver of the Year

 

 

June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata Majors Winner - BFG Supertour Winner -

#16
Steve Scheifler

Steve Scheifler

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,816 posts

Crazy
Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record.

#17
Steve Scheifler

Steve Scheifler

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,816 posts

And then there's MidO.
Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record.

#18
Carl

Carl

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 75 posts
  • Location:United States
  • Region:California
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:38

Thanks for the info.  It looks like in SoCal, the answer for me is to stick with the Hoosiers (at least until I have used up Dean Busk's 3-4 HC tires).  I can decide later.  If I raced more in NorCal, the answer would definitely be Toyos.  Ron called it exactly.  I was 3rd both days at Laguna this weekend in a field of 4 SM (hoosier) drivers (one guy didn't start on Sunday so no sweat getting third there).  The other 34 drivers were SSM or SMT (both on Toyos).    






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users