69 replies to this topic

[Roberts37]

Gagliardo is a good driver. I had some hard racing with him at Gingerman where he won out to take 3rd. We worked together today in qual. Seems to be a good guy as well. Hopefully todays race will stay clean.

[Jim Drago]

From Atlanta Speedwerks Facebook page. Contact in turn five in race one.

Lambs in car. No penalties   I'll hold my comments until others make theirs

 

 

https://youtu.be/BWIXCFm8DKk

[Bench Racer]

Again GREAT racing guys.

 

1 SM 72 Voytek Burdzy             2:44.489

2 SM 89 Todd Lamb                  2:44.298
3 SM 37 Adam Roberts             2:44.596
4 SM 17 Tom Brown                 2:44.411
5 SM 99 Kyle M. Webb             2:44.637
6 SM 13 Michael Gagliardo      2:44.278
7 SM 51 Josh Bilicki                 2:44.654
8 SM 18 Tyler Brown                2:44.215
9 SM 27 Max Nufer                   2:44.215
10 SM 19 Justin Elder               2:44.337
 

[Roberts37]

I will be the first one to speak up about the first turn 5 incident. I made a huge error going down into 5 on Tom Browns bumper. I lost track of my reference points and got onto the brake way to late to do anything. Even before Tom was nice enough to sit me down show me the video and my mistake i already knew what I had done. It meant a lt to me he understood and was nice about the incident. The lack of experience really got to me there...

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Today's race was very hard fought but very clean respectful driving all the way around! Congrats to Voytek, lamb, Adam on the podium.

[Rob Burgoon]

From Atlanta Speedwerks Facebook page. Contact in turn five in race one.

Lambs in car. No penalties   I'll hold my comments until others make theirs

 

 

https://youtu.be/BWIXCFm8DKk

 

We see wreck, Todd sees opportunity.  I'd buy that book.

[Bench Racer]

Productive impound all meeting after Q2. People unhappy about no penalties yesterday so stewards explained their dilemma and efforts. Burden of proof is too high by their reading of GCR, so it ended up inconclusive (if not exactly a "racing incident").

We then collectively asked for impound all following any major damage. Take time to sort out who was involved, who saw it and might have video, then release the rest. I think it is a sensible first step. Documenting key points of such investigations would be the next.

 

 

I think this just highlights the need to make some adjustments.

 

WE as a class had a situation at Gingerman, and then we as a class had situations at Road America and on and on with zero changes.

 

Sat. a friend racing H production was taken out in T3 by an F production car in lap 4. End of race for both, obviously serious damage to both. Per SCCA GCR this damage MUST be noted in vehicle logbook. The word MUST is a mandatory word per the GCR. Neither of the production car logbooks received notes. It's not only a Spec Miata situation. How many of the Spec Miata logbooks received notes Sat. after the on track situations? If no logbook notes why not? Was the burden of proof too high for the Chief Technical Inspector to understand or doesn't he/she understand their job description or in Rob's best words, was he/she afraid the shrimp will be gone if they take the time to do the logbook note work.  If the Chief Technical Inspector doesn't want to note logbooks for on track damage to cars, who really expects the Steward's to dish out penalties for poor on track decisions that create on track situations that cost car owners thousands of dollars to fix or potentially scrap a car?

 

The SCCA has rules in place today...............

 

First baby step, lean on whoever at Topeka to get the Chief Technical Inspector doing their job per their job description. Notes in logbook is also a tally so that when Joe Blow is constantly being involved and Billy Driver get's whacked on track by Joe Blow, Billy Driver can mention to the Chief Technical Inspector/Steward that Joe Blow is constantly involved in on track situations. Chief Technical Inspector/Steward can review logbook and implement a penalty.

 

Second step, lean on whoever at Topeka to get the Steward's doing their job per their job description.

 

Adjustments, leaning on Topeka is really quite simple. Who got totally involved after the West coast Runoffs head fiasco, SCCA President Lisa Noble.

 

Maybe Lisa needs individual letters from each one of us.     

[Chris Ashcraft]

I was also involved in a weekend ending on track incident on lap 4 of qualifying, Michigan looking car spun in turn 14 tried to save it as usual backed in back into oncoming traffic (me) I swerved caught the rear end on his and bent everything on the left rear including knuckle (of course he got to keep me racing and the guys as Advanced were nice enough to fix it for him while he watched). When will people learn that trying to save it after it already gone only causes more incidents. I spent 3 year running regionals at Mid Ohio and never once had an on track incident involving another car NOT ONCE in three years. This year i decided to give the majors a run as the runoffs are 3 miles from my house. I went to 4 Majors events this year PITT, MO, Ginger, and this weeked RA. At every event my car got hit at no fualt of my own other than wrong place wrong time. Pitt - Frank and I got collected by Dave trying to save a spin (dave has been amazing even gave me a door and let me use his scales all year) MO - was really clean but still had wheel marks on the doors. Gingerman- well we all know what happened there. and this weekend at RA ( i got a sorry, i really thought i could save it.  This ended my bid to run at the runoffs this year in my backyard. I will NEVER race another majors event in SM unless there are serious changes made.  

 

On a side note - I believe his name was Joe all black car under the Advanced tent literally offered me his car to try and get my points for the runoffs. I was literally floored by the generosity that was offered to me by this gentlemen as i literally had just introduced myself on the grid prior to qualifying. To you Sir i give my utmost appreciation...you earned a ton of Karma points with me.  I turned it down as there was no way i was getting in someone else's car in this class.

 

Not sure if i will return to racing in SM next year as the boy is old enough to get into a kart, but its in my blood for sure so no bets are off.

[sentercut]

Chris, that guy in the 131 car is Joe Tovo, he is a class act and a I am sure he legitimately would have been happy to see you get your points in his car...that I wrecked during the sprints btw..

 

I hate that you got taken out in qualifying, that sucks. 

[NPiekarski]

Lots of beat up metal from the sidelines, just glad no one got hurt inSM. We need to always keep in mind the dangers of this sport when leaning hard upon others. I don't know anymore, but keep John Elder and family in your thoughts. I've seen many hard hit cars at RA through out the years, but his STL car is one of the worst I have seen.

[Roberts37]

I want to say thank you to Kyle, Jim, and Bench Racer for the congrats. I ended up 3rd today in a qbsolute heck of a race (Very clean I may add). It was a blast getting to race with Todd, Voytek, Josh, and Tome Brown. Overall I could not be more happy with the way this weekend went for me and I am very appricative of the help I have recieved from Kyle and Jim along the way. Also thankful for the hospitality and welcoming from everyone in this class in my first year. Congrats to Todd and Voytek today, I really felt like the odd man out at the end of todays race and was not sure where to position myself so I just tried to stay clean and set myself up for the best finish I could with Tom Brown hot on my heels.

One thing I would like to add to is something Jim brough up after the sprints. The podium today basically consisted of us 3 my girlfriend, Todds crew guy (sorry never caught his name) and the Advanced group. I know everyone wanted to get out of there but I felt turnout could have been better and the better sportmanship we have the better community we have. I know I made it a point to be at the podium of Gingerman even though I was not on it there. Just my 2 cents. Other than that great weekend hanging with kyle, Browns, pecore and more.

Really looking forward to the Runoffs this year, and now that this season is starting to wind down I am already anxious for next year.

[Ron Alan]

From Atlanta Speedwerks Facebook page. Contact in turn five in race one.

Lambs in car. No penalties   I'll hold my comments until others make theirs

 

 

https://youtu.be/BWIXCFm8DKk

The first faint(as Todd was passing) was just a dickhead move...the 2nd didnt go so well for him. Someone who has been around this long should have a lot better awareness of the cars around him...did Kyle get hit in this or did he just over shoot the corner trying to avoid? Penalty IMO

 

The first incident(contact) has already been explained...and understood. Still should be penalties!

[Caveman-kwebb99]

As I turned in I got hit in the left rear from his left rear and then knocked straight by his right front... There is a series of pictures that was clicked through the only way I was not going to be collected was for me to just drive right through the t5 exit back to the paddock...

Had I don't that I may have come.home dent free... Should I have done that I. Hind sight yes! My damage sustained is far more then the 175 in Mazda money and my one tire I won gonna cover...

A spinning sideways to backwards car at those speeds will always catch up to the car that is just braking on line and turning into a corner the only hope is the spinner just flat spins right by and misses you...

I had countless chances to make position moves in that race... But I was watching the retarded driving going on and I absolutel knew I was going to the front wwithout ever making a move that day!

Had that been a few years ago I would have been right in there making all kinds of retaliatory moves and been a prime cause of the cluster... Old age has had a calming effect on me which is for the best ask any who raced me from 2010-2012... I was fast but I might take you out with a low percentage move, and I still to.this day don't let people drive over on me! That is the one thing I just don't tolerate nor should my of us have to. Drive hard but drive fair 4 wheels on pavement for your competitors is what everyone should expect from one another...

I had slight contact on last lap on Sunday race I defended In to t5 but left 4 wheels of room under braking he got a wiggle and wiggled into me, I wiggled gave up the corner could have forced an over under move at top of hill instead I pushed, I passed him coming off the exit curb of the link and had I driven over on him at t5 he likely would have put me in the grass and ultimate I tot he wall as I made my pass, but he drove me to the edge and no further just as I did... I went to his trail immediately after to make sure I had left him room in t5, his remark was you gave me plenty of room but I had to make the pass move it was last lap, he remarked it was fun racing you always drive me clean! That was more satisfying to me to get that compliment then a trophy and a few Benjamin's...

If we all could say that at the end of the day and say it honestly this class would double in size over night!

I am coaching Adam who is a complete stud of a driver shown by his results this weekend! I am in a position to show him by my own actions how this class should be, I have tried in every way to be a good example to him, from car prep, to on track behavior!

We all want to win every time on track, but winning the respect of the drivers around us should always be the top award!

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Amd to the question of should there be penalties for the first incident, yes there should have. As well as the second Incident.

We pretty much outlined in our meetings how we feel the stewards should react, and I told them flat out at this point there needs to be penalties even if the penalty is the wrong decision, as their unwillingness to act so far has sent us a message that we can just keep doing the same old stupid shit and get away with it, it doesn't matter what a drivers intent is the rules are clear... Intent does not need to be known, if your going 55mph and it changes to a 25mph zone the cop doesn't ask himself if you meant to speed or just missed a sign he writes you a ticket for 25 over and tells you nicely to keep your eyes peeled for the limit signs from now on!

I personally think the message was heard by the stewars, but it was heard by the drivers! Respect one another period with the decisions we are making, it showed in the driving during the race, it may only be a few weeks till some need to hear that same speech again but sooner or later if the message is the same it will or should become ingrained into all of us.

[FTodaro]

Congrats to Adam, Todd Voytek, Kyle , podium finishers, it's an achievement on this track, that depends on team work at some point to get to the front.

Much of our talk is about contact and crashes, it's going to take time for both the drivers and the stewards to change their expectations. The culture today is that contact is ok. In my opionin it boils down to a lack of respect, with the occasional lack of judgement.

I am told there are discussions underway, for next year, we have to be prepared as drivers to make suggestions, and make some changes Iin our own behavior, if we expect change.

Chris, I have always enjoyed racing with you, give it another year, this is a good class and we are smart enough to fix it.

[Jim Drago]

The first faint(as Todd was passing) was just a dickhead move...the 2nd didnt go so well for him. Someone who has been around this long should have a lot better awareness of the cars around him...did Kyle get hit in this or did he just over shoot the corner trying to avoid? Penalty IMO

 

The first incident(contact) has already been explained...and understood. Still should be penalties!

Agreed, he moved once to the middle-inside to defend, then realized he left too much room, he jerked the wheel left trying a late block or an intimidation move. Lamb was coming at that point whether he wanted to or not as Brown was glued to his bumper. Those type of moves get people killed. Thankfully he had enough sense to move back right immediately realizing that wasnt a good move. 

 

The second one was unintententional and I think he just misjudged it.  I did the same thing to Ross this year at Nola. It sucks, but unintentional. However, as I said before in the other thread... it should be penalized in both cases, our misjudgement caused contact it. I would have been fine with points and I had already apologized to Michael and taken the blame, fortunately none of us spun. Bumper cars at 115 MPH is going to get someone hurt or killed, it's time to wake up. 

 

Congrats on a clean race yesterday, looked very exciting on RM, Congratultions to Voytek,Todd and Adam.

[Todd Lamb]

Finally got home last night - long drive back to the ATL.

 

Race 1 full video (last two laps with 4 tires down to the steel carcass and vibrating violently, thanks to Caveman for loaning me tires for race 2):

 

My left front, not enough grip to hang on for the win coming out of 14 on the last lap...

 IMG_9386.JPG   174.52KB   1 downloads

 

Aside from the obvious on-track incidents, it was a great weekend. Coaching client Tray Ayers joined us and swept SRF3. Topher Everett ran at Rd America for the first time and really enjoyed it, getting up to speed as a first timer with a bunch of lead/follow sessions on Friday. Hard not to get hooked on the track; It was my favorite before VIR. I wasn't even planning on racing, but after the test day I was having a blast and wanted to play.

 

We all rented a house in Elkhart Lake and had an amazing racing family weekend. So much fun....Tom Brown "dragged" us to the Tiki bar before we even unloaded, clearly looking to get us inebriated to get an edge on the weekend. We ended up on a boat the next day with a bunch of folks and families in tow (thanks Tom). And of course it wouldn't have been complete without a trip to Schwartz's Supper Club and eating until we hated ourselves.

 

 

Congrats to all the podium finishers...great battles throughout the top ten. I was back in 7th for a while and it was no easy task getting back to the front.

 

Two topics that need to be discussed:

 

CONTACT

Collectively there was a lot of blocking, slamming, and wrecking on Saturday. On Sunday with the same cars/drivers it was a clean race. Still a tough fight, but clean and fair. The rough driving (intentional or otherwise) needs to stop. The Stewards called Saturday's wrecks "racing incidents" and that is a big problem. There were poor decisions and even simple mistakes that affected a lot of people. The intent is irrelevant when the outcome is the same. The Stewards need to take action, otherwise this will become the norm for the class (or maybe it already has). The good thing that seemed to come out of the meeting was that the Stewards agreed in the future to impound all cars around an incident to collect videos and statements. It will save them a lot of running around trying to get the facts. I think we need mandatory contact impound as well as requiring video for all cars (see signature disclaimer).

 

DECISION MAKING

While we are asking the Stewards to take action for rough driving, the cause is poor decision making by drivers on track. As I said in the driver's meeting - EVERY OPENING IS NOT A PASSING OPPORTUNITY! Be smart, make smart decisions - win races and most importantly win the respect of your fellow racers. Make stupid decisions and you'll win stupid prizes like bent up cars and pissed off people. It's Road America in this case....yes you're a hero for making a dive bomb pass into T3/T6/T7 and slowing yourself up in the process...you go ahead and I will pass you back the easy way - on the straightaway in the draft. There's no point in fighting for every inch on a track like that. I can't tell you how many spots I gave up over the weekend to stay out of harm's way, only to gain them back a straightaway or lap later.

 

This isn't a winning at all costs sport. I didn't win either day...Saturday I finished second and lost a lot of respect for my fellow drivers and was pretty unhappy with the SM class as a whole. Sunday I finished second and gained a little respect back for my fellow drivers and had a lot of fun. Led at one point on the final lap both days, and could have made aggressive moves and knocked people off the track to win. But that's not the way to win races nor win the respect of fellow drivers.

[Todd Lamb]

And on a side note: somebody buy my car already! Still for sale....will replace the rear bumper (no other damage from RA)

 

http://atlspeedwerks.com/for-sale/#

[MotoFusi]

Todd,did you make Caveman put the tires on too?

[Bench Racer]

Todd,did you make Caveman put the tires on too?

That's what he has Brian for.