45 replies to this topic

[Johnny D]

It would be nice if Mazda/SCCA would allow us some transmission modifications, for durability only, in the NA,B and C boxes. I understand that the splined spacer on the counter shaft is in play but there are other things that we can do to make the boxes last longer. Many are doing it anyway, but we will run out of donor boxes at some point.

Only writing a letter will make it happen.

J~

[BNaumann]

Would be interested in hearing the failure modes. Is it a design or materials issue or just poor technique? It's a Japanese sports car transmission not a Jerico crash box. If you allow durability mod$ we're all gonna have to do it so we can do those millisecond power shifts.

[Johnny D]

Is the hardening of the forks and springs and stuff in the rules or is that what Franks talking about already doing?

http://mazdaracers.c...best-available/

J~

[FTodaro]

The failures are

Third Gear detonating taking out the counter shaft(cost to replace those parts make a donor the lower cost option)

Fifth Gear failures,

Twisting counter shaft, (if bad cannot separate the box to rebuild it)

soft shift fork

fragile shift hub springs

 

Those are the typical failures, when the counter shaft goes the trans is not worth rebuild due to cost. We will start running out of options at some point. The Crate Transmissions do not seam to be as durable as the older boxes.

 

Yes doing some of the improvements adds cost over the short run but lowers cost over the long run.

 

Nothing proposed makes you go faster.

[Bench Racer]

Is this a Lugna Seca cricket???

 

[MotoFusi]

TNT Transmission Service! Don't go to the track without one...........

[Jim Drago]

Not having these issues..  transmission failures are 99% driver related.  I have two drivers that twist counter shafts.. both wheel hop on down shifts.. 

In 10+ years of SM racing.. I lost one rebuilt transmission late in the season when third gear blew apart. 

 

maybe you guys are using the wrong rebuilder

[davew]

Not having these issues..  transmission failures are 99% driver related.  I have two drivers that twist counter shafts.. both wheel hop on down shifts.. 

In 10+ years of SM racing.. I lost one rebuilt transmission late in the season when third gear blew apart. 

 

maybe you guys are using the wrong rebuilder

 

They are using the wrong rebuilder since I am not doing their transmissions. ;-)

 

I agree, gear boxes fail mostly due to improper down shifting. Too early and the gears get pushed backwards, no blip, too big of a blip or wheel hop.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Not having these issues.. transmission failures are 99% driver related. I have two drivers that twist counter shafts.. both wheel hop on down shifts..
In 10+ years of SM racing.. I lost one rebuilt transmission late in the season when third gear blew apart.

maybe you guys are using the wrong rebuilder

I am getting two plus seasons with the wrong rebuilder, how long can your wheel hoppers go on the right rebuilder? Lol

[Bench Racer]

Anyone by SMCS rule like to justify using shift forks and syncro springs of a different hardness than OEM shift forks and syncro springs.

 

Please don't imply that the difference between OEM and these parts of different hardness can't be determined.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Anyone by SMCS rule like to justify using shift forks and syncro springs of a different hardness than OEM shift forks and syncro springs.

Please don't imply that the difference between OEM and these parts of different hardness can't be determined.

So what is the manufacturing tolerances thst is built into the hardness of said part... I have no idea honestly... But seems all the Mazda parts have very wide tolerances but then I'm not in manufacturing... From cylinder heads from the factory that will not pass our rules to spindles that cannot pass, so god knows what else.

For the masses can you quote what the rule is on the hardness of these parts so we can do our own testing to assure they are legal?

[Johnny D]

So if it's driver error why all the hardening ??

J~

[Johnny D]

Paging Mark Bennett, paging Mark Bennett.

Please come to the Mazdaracers.com site.

Just you, not your car.

Thanks

That is all.

J~

[Brandon]

Rule changes in support of durability have been discarded in the past ("thank you for your input") and I'd be highly suspect of the current CRB/SMAC being supportive of any sort of hardening/reinforcement "now".

 

You's write the letter, you's take your chances...

[Johnny D]

I'm just trying to fit the rules to the parts like we always do.

 

So how would a Winnie protest about hardened parts at the Runoffs go over ??

J~

[av8tor]

I am getting two plus seasons with the wrong rebuilder, how long can your wheel hoppers go on the right rebuilder? Lol

You mean wheel hopping is not the way you are supposed to down shift?  

[Bench Racer]

Kyle, how about SMCS rule 9.1.7.C. Authorized Modifications, read the last paragraph and provide you comment/comments.

 

If the CCC used Mark Bennett's test it would become very clear the syncro springs had been modified.

 

 

"So how would a Winnie protest about hardened parts at the Runoffs go over ??

 

Johnny, read the rule and view the video. How do you believe a protest would go. By the way using the term "winnie protest" to me is an indicator one's house may be glass.

 

 

Rule changes in support of durability have been discarded in the past ("thank you for your input") and I'd be highly suspect of the current CRB/SMAC being supportive of any sort of hardening/reinforcement "now".

I ask only because I want to be sure I understand the comment. Does this ^ mean, the cheat has been out of the barn and there's no way to halt the cheat?

[Brandon]

Read no more into it than what's there.  It was only a comment about previous changes being requested due to durability desires being disallowed and nothing about the current proposed request (hardening/reinforcement).

 

Oh, and I'm no longer on the SMAC too so check with the rest of that group for their insights.

 

Kyle, how about SMCS rule 9.1.7.C. Authorized Modifications, read the last paragraph and provide you comment/comments.

 

If the CCC used Mark Bennett's test it would become very clear the syncro springs had been modified.

 

 

"So how would a Winnie protest about hardened parts at the Runoffs go over ??

 

Johnny, read the rule and view the video. How do you believe a protest would go. By the way using the term "winnie protest" to me is an indicator one's house may be glass.

 

 

I ask only because I want to be sure I understand the comment. Does this ^ mean, the cheat has been out of the barn and there's no way to halt the cheat?

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Kyle, how about SMCS rule 9.1.7.C. Authorized Modifications, read the last paragraph and provide you comment/comments.

If the CCC used Mark Bennett's test it would become very clear the syncro springs had been modified.



"So how would a Winnie protest about hardened parts at the Runoffs go over ??

Johnny, read the rule and view the video. How do you believe a protest would go. By the way using the term "winnie protest" to me is an indicator one's house may be glass.


I ask only because I want to be sure I understand the comment. Does this ^ mean, the cheat has been out of the barn and there's no way to halt the cheat?

I don't have a dog in the fight, but a video of one stock spring vs one hardened spring... Is that really true of all stock springs? Do we know this to be true of every stock spring?

It seems to me logically someone with a very tough stock spring could be dqd wrongly if this is the tech procedure for testing a spring.

I would think any competitor would win a dq by appeal to this being the testing procedure.

This is not like looking at a gear to see if it's been remd that is simple enough a 2 year old could tell.

I really have no problem making these springs legal or not, as I do not go through transmission parts, and I don't believe they can add to performance. They may or may not add to longevity. I guess that depends on how much of a cowboy the driver is.

In 7 years of racing sm I have had two failures one in my car with a trans that was on its 3rd season and 3rd gear detonated, and one other time I had 3rd gear detonated in a newer trans in a car I did not own.

[Johnny D]

"So how would a Winnie protest about hardened parts at the Runoffs go over ??
 
Johnny, read the rule and view the video. How do you believe a protest would go. By the way using the term "winnie protest" to me is an indicator one's house may be glass.
 
 
I ask only because I want to be sure I understand the comment. Does this ^ mean, the cheat has been out of the barn and there's no way to halt the cheat?

1st I'm just stirring the pot. (He's back already starting shit ??)

"Winnie" if it's for durability and nothing else.

It's out there, like the control arm camber, so wanna make it legal ??

There's rebuilds, good, better, best. We just talking durability, I don't think so.

Jim shifts perfect so he only needs/has a $400 rebuilt tranny right ?

J~