60 replies to this topic

[Stuart]

Great information to know, as my sub strap was far too short and I am going to be lengthening it but will now put extra emphasis on not going too far the other way.

[pmiranda]

IMO, Go with 6-point (or more) harness... they maximize load on your pelvis - strongest bone structure in your body - and nothing on your soft bits. Also, always tighten lap/leg belts first, and shoulder straps last. Doing it the other way around increased risk of submarining and the massive internal injuries that would bring.

[ken payson]

Amy, Of course you have a screw loose, just like a lot of us. I broke my neck and could not wait to heal and get in a car again.

 

[Jim Drago]

Amy, Of course you have a screw loose, just like a lot of us. I broke my neck and could not wait to heal and get in a car again.

that was a nasty hit.. The one at limerock?

[B(Kuch)Kucera45]

you aren't a real sport bike racer if you still have both of your pinkies

you aren't a real sport bike racer if you still have both of your pinkies

I raced super bikes for 4yrs and won 3 championships and still have all my fingers but I do walk with a limp and have some hardware( plates and screws) to remind me of those years !

I got more hurt riding my motorcycle on the street then I have racing anything. I was life flighted and had over 27 fractures in my skull and tore my leg up pretty bad. But after being in the hospital the first day I got out I went right back to the bike shop and bought a new motorcycle. My point is you can get hurt just walking down the street so live your life and have fun while you do it because you never know.

That being said this is way safer than racing a lot of other sports or class. If you are scared or Leary every time you get out there it's not worth it. If you love it then it is well worth the risk and keep having fun.

[Cnj]

Amy it's a periodic topic of conversation in my circles too.

Let's start by admitting that racing cars is not an inherently safe activity. Let me list several other activities that have real inherent risk:

- flying private planes
- scuba diving
- sky diving
- skate boarding
- mountain or road cycling
- mounting climbing
- ATV's
- trampolines

These are only a few of the activities that most might consider risky. Then there are a long list of unexpectedly injury prone sports such as basketball, soccer, and of course football. The list goes on. And on. For fun (or depression) take a look at the list of all the dumb ways we hurt ourselves in normal life... https://www.cpsc.gov...rch--Statistics

Generally insurance companies have the best statistical data sets and you can gather where we fit in this picture when you apply for life insurance. Eg. Amateur motor racing is (usually) considered more dangerous than road cycling, but less dangerous than scuba diving or flying a private plane. While we might "feel" safer driving on a race track than driving to the track or work, that's not what the data indicates. With that said we engage in a statistically modest risk sport and when things go wrong once in a blue moon they lead mainly to recoverable injuries.

What can we do to make it safer?

1. Install and use all the safety equipment practically possible. Generally FIA/ Indy/ NASCAR Testing seems to indicate that seat quality is the most determinant factor in injuries.
2. Don't drive on tracks that are known to be dangerous. WG is an amazing track to drive on, but any track with walls and blind corners is going be more dangerous than a visually wide open track with runoff areas. But we drive on tricky tracks for the challenge.....
3. Select your racing friends carefully. Racing in mixed classes with mixed skills (perhaps at night) is more risky than a single class of drivers you know well.
4. Drive more defensively (from a safety point of view). It's always intrigued me to see how some people can race a lot, be fast and seldom have car damage (Matt Reynolds comes to mind in my region) while some others have lots of car damage in a season.

I love racing SM because of the level of skill required to do well in an insanely competitive field. I also chose it because the cars don't get to crazy speeds. I've driven very fast cars and what scared me was not the speed, but that I really liked the speed
I generally try to select my races in places that are not known for accidents/injuries (MSR Houston clockwise comes to mind) and I try to select the group I run with wisely. FInally I try to drive with full awareness that I am not invincible, injuries hurt and my family would like me to come home in one piece.

CNJ

[ner88]

Thinks about all the races Michael Schumacher drove in and it was a skiing accident that did all the damage.

[Danny Steyn]

When I arrived in the USA, 23 years ago and was living in my van, I briefly dated a US Olympic freestyle skier (IMHO one of the most dangerous sports ever (next to wingsuit flying which I still want to do)). She had been a freestyle skier for her entire life, represented her country around the world, had several bad falls but never sustained a serious injury, but one morning walking to work, the step underneath her foot cracked from the ice, and she fell, breaking her back and spent more than a year in traction.

 

As far as I am concerned, live the life you choose, live it to its fullest, and deal with consequences as they happen. I have broken more than 60 bones in my body, had more than 20 surgeries and spent a week in a coma, and I consider Spec Miata Racing as one of the safest past times I have ever participated in. 

 

Amy, you have serious skills, don't ever question why you are doing this. 

[Craig Berry]

Great topic, and perspectives from everyone. I do think this is a very personal issue that is different for all of us. I think being comfortable and confident is a real key.
I really enjoy mountain biking, especially on fast tight trails, reminds me a lot of the eye, muscle, thought cordination of the race car, and like race tracks the trail constantly changes, with weather and time of year. Three years ago I rode accross a dry creek on a rail road tie, I nose dived off and was knocked unconscious, front teeth out, concussion, and nerve damage in my neck to left hand that I still feel today. I still ride everyday possible, and I am still comfortable going fast.....I am no longer comfortable being on obstacles above the ground, so I do not do them anymore.
With racing, I have never felt unfomfortable or worried for my safety. I do know if that day ever comes, I will be cheering the rest of you on from the sidelines.

[Topher]

We all have our own risk threshold. For some, the danger is part of the attraction. I don't subscribe to that philosophy. Nor do I support the idea that safety softens the sport and allows weekend warriors to compete. It is club racing, after all. 

 

I have had many discussions about this topic with JB, an ER physician and fellow BMWCCA racer.

 

We've come to the conclusion that there are 4 main factors that influence on-track safety:

 

1) Driver- judgement, situational awareness, skill, experience, etc.

 

2) Equipment- car, roll cage, HANS, helmet, etc.

 

3) Track- surface, runoff, barriers, etc.

 

4) Track personnel- race control, corner workers, EMS, physician.

 

Some of these factors we can influence, some we cannot. Two areas that have lagged, in my opinion, are the track and the personnel.

Many of the tracks on the club racing schedule haven't been updated in decades.

 

Road Atlanta is a perfect example.  Changes in the name of safety are not cheap and are unlikely to happen without pressure from sanctioning bodies.

 

The SCCA also shares this responsibility. Witness your incidents. Also the Cat Majors where a two SRF drivers were nearly decapitated by the tow rope when race control released a safety vehicle onto a blind part of the track in front of the leaders on a hot track.

 

Interestingly, pro racers ( Conti tire and Weathertech series) rely on the same track side medical personnel as club racers- whatever the track provides. Commonly this is a local ER physician. While I understand that NASCAR wants to limit its liability i.e. not have its employed physician sued by a fan that has a heart attack, it baffles me that the drivers that make their living in these series have not pushed harder for a dedicated trauma trained team.

 

JB takes the time to be the track side doc during the Petit LeMans because his neighbor Andrew Davis (Stevenson Motorsports) asks him to.

 

That being said, club racing is fairly safe. Skiing, scuba diving, and flying a private plane all have comparable or higher risk of injury or death.

Running actually has the highest injury rate of any sport. Per mile, you are much more likely to be injured driving to the track.

 

With that, no other sport is as challenging or as rewarding as racing. It is as much about the internal challenge as it is the person in the car next to you. Very few non racers appreciate this.

 

If I evaluated the risk to be such that there was a significant chance I would not be able to work on Monday, I would find something else to do.

 

When I get flack about it, I point to the colleague that destroyed his ankle walking back to his car from an SEC football game. 

 

As Steve McQueen said- racing is life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting. 

[LarryKing]

I thought Steve McQueen said that.

[tburas56]

Often I ask the same question, I have been racing since 1999 and have wrecked many a race car. In 2010 I was racing IMSA and was in a wreck that made NASCAR top ten wreck of the week. I broke 6 ribs and severely F#@% up my neck and lower back. 3 months later I was back in a Race Car Racing World Challenge to a Win. I attribute not dying to something my very first driving instructor made me practice and perfect.
He said drive the car till you know you are done.
Then close your eyes and totally relax your body. Totally relax feet, legs, arms, neck and everything. He asked, why does the drunk survive nor the baby get hurt. Their bodies are jelly. Totally Relaxed.

[Jamz14]

Everyday I wake up and at some point in the day I question whether I should have bought my son a motorcycle. I told him for two years that there was no way that was going to happen. When he was 17 I relented and bought him the crappiest low powered motorcycle I could find but that was still cool; a 69 BSA Starfire. It was run down, didn't run and I knew it was going to be challenge for him to restore it and get it running well enough that he could ride it. I did it because I knew the day he turned 18 he would buy the bike he wanted, some big cc Japanese bike that scared the hell out of me. Keep in mind that I rode motorcycles almost exclusively until I was 35 and my son was 5 years old. I gave them up because I loved him so much and never wanted to leave him or have him see me injured. All those years riding and a year racing them I never had but one accident of note. It was like I had a invisible shield around me. Should have been dead many times over.

 

At his graduation celebration I gave a toast. Different than many parents I told my son to go out in the world and to make mistakes. Not little mistakes but go and live it and make big mistakes. Live free and take chances. Never succumb to the paralyzing spell of adulthood. 

 

All I can tell you Amy is there are many days when I am questioning whether I should have bought him that bike or given that toast, that the guilt in doing so drops me to my knees. There is only one thing that keeps me from blowing my brains out and lifts me back up to get in his car and race it as he did; and that is hearing him say in my head as he did in person, that he wanted it no other way than to live as he did; as we did together. The things we did some people live their whole lives without living as much as he did in 18 years. With much trepidation I would tell you to live. How you live..........well only you know what that should be. But live as you would without fear and know that you walk the planet as one of its wild and native creatures.

 

I have no idea if this advice is right. Not sure life will ever choose to show me if it is right or not.

[MPR22]

Everyday I wake up and at some point in the day I question whether I should have bought my son a motorcycle. I told him for two years that there was no way that was going to happen. When he was 17 I relented and bought him the crappiest low powered motorcycle I could find but that was still cool; a 69 BSA Starfire. It was run down, didn't run and I knew it was going to be challenge for him to restore it and get it running well enough that he could ride it. I did it because I knew the day he turned 18 he would buy the bike he wanted, some big cc Japanese bike that scared the hell out of me. Keep in mind that I rode motorcycles almost exclusively until I was 35 and my son was 5 years old. I gave them up because I loved him so much and never wanted to leave him or have him see me injured. All those years riding and a year racing them I never had but one accident of note. It was like I had a invisible shield around me. Should have been dead many times over.

 

At his graduation celebration I gave a toast. Different than many parents I told my son to go out in the world and to make mistakes. Not little mistakes but go and live it and make big mistakes. Live free and take chances. Never succumb to the paralyzing spell of adulthood. 

 

All I can tell you Amy is there are many days when I am questioning whether I should have bought him that bike or given that toast, that the guilt in doing so drops me to my knees. There is only one thing that keeps me from blowing my brains out and lifts me back up to get in his car and race it as he did; and that is hearing him say in my head as he did in person, that he wanted it no other way than to live as he did; as we did together. The things we did some people live their whole lives without living as much as he did in 18 years. With much trepidation I would tell you to live. How you live..........well only you know what that should be. But live as you would without fear and know that you walk the planet as one of its wild and native creatures.

 

I have no idea if this advice is right. Not sure life will ever choose to show me if it is right or not.

You gave some great advice!! I often wonder how to lead my children into adulthood and your toast seems as good as any i have ever heard.  We are here but a short time, live while you are here, leave it all on the court, track....where ever you chose to excel but don't live in a cocoon of safe decisions and regret.

 

I hope you keep your head up, I pray for you a lot.   

[pmiranda]

I don't want to start a whole argument over it, but I'm curious if that is with a helmet, and if so, what kind? (full-face? partial?) Did it change your mind about any particular gear?

I got more hurt riding my motorcycle on the street then I have racing anything. I was life flighted and had over 27 fractures in my skull and tore my leg up pretty bad. 

[Jamz14]

You gave some great advice!! I often wonder how to lead my children into adulthood and your toast seems as good as any i have ever heard.  We are here but a short time, live while you are here, leave it all on the court, track....where ever you chose to excel but don't live in a cocoon of safe decisions and regret.

 

I hope you keep your head up, I pray for you a lot.   

Thank you. You guys are my family now. I get up and go to work but really......I just get up and think about racing with you guys. And I hope some day soon I will be able to be at the track with you and show you my friendship by racing you as hard as I can. And win lose or draw, shake your hand afterwards brother.

[Johnny D]

 And I hope some day soon I will be able to be at the track with you and show you my friendship by racing you as hard as I can. And win lose or draw, shake your hand afterwards brother.

 

Like at the Western State Championships were your registered ??

 

J~

[Jamz14]

Like at the Western State Championships were your registered ??

 

J~

Yes!!!! Just like that!! Thanks Johnny for making that connection. I am really looking forward to seeing all of you guys again. I need to race again. I need to be around you guys again. Too long away from the track and I begin to lose it. I smashed up Novas car pretty bad a couple months back. It just came off the stands and out for a quick test ride yesterday! #17 lives another day to race with you guys. She's getting old and beat up, but I love that car more than any other possession.

 

It was funny I was talking with a neighbor yesterday when he was looking at the car and telling him the story of the damage and how and where it happened. I realized right then that Nova and I wrecked on the same track in the same corner. It made me smile. I am racing his car partially to live through all the things he did. Well I got my wish! I 100 mph crash and damage identical to his in the very spot as him!

 

Lets do this!!

[Brandon]

Dammit...I'm at work and out of tissues...

 

Everyday I wake up and at some point in the day I question whether I should have bought my son a motorcycle. I told him for two years that there was no way that was going to happen. When he was 17 I relented and bought him the crappiest low powered motorcycle I could find but that was still cool; a 69 BSA Starfire. It was run down, didn't run and I knew it was going to be challenge for him to restore it and get it running well enough that he could ride it. I did it because I knew the day he turned 18 he would buy the bike he wanted, some big cc Japanese bike that scared the hell out of me. Keep in mind that I rode motorcycles almost exclusively until I was 35 and my son was 5 years old. I gave them up because I loved him so much and never wanted to leave him or have him see me injured. All those years riding and a year racing them I never had but one accident of note. It was like I had a invisible shield around me. Should have been dead many times over.

 

At his graduation celebration I gave a toast. Different than many parents I told my son to go out in the world and to make mistakes. Not little mistakes but go and live it and make big mistakes. Live free and take chances. Never succumb to the paralyzing spell of adulthood. 

 

All I can tell you Amy is there are many days when I am questioning whether I should have bought him that bike or given that toast, that the guilt in doing so drops me to my knees. There is only one thing that keeps me from blowing my brains out and lifts me back up to get in his car and race it as he did; and that is hearing him say in my head as he did in person, that he wanted it no other way than to live as he did; as we did together. The things we did some people live their whole lives without living as much as he did in 18 years. With much trepidation I would tell you to live. How you live..........well only you know what that should be. But live as you would without fear and know that you walk the planet as one of its wild and native creatures.

 

I have no idea if this advice is right. Not sure life will ever choose to show me if it is right or not.

 

[MotoFusi]

Everyday I wake up and at some point in the day I question whether I should have bought my son a motorcycle. I told him for two years that there was no way that was going to happen. When he was 17 I relented and bought him the crappiest low powered motorcycle I could find but that was still cool; a 69 BSA Starfire. It was run down, didn't run and I knew it was going to be challenge for him to restore it and get it running well enough that he could ride it. I did it because I knew the day he turned 18 he would buy the bike he wanted, some big cc Japanese bike that scared the hell out of me. Keep in mind that I rode motorcycles almost exclusively until I was 35 and my son was 5 years old. I gave them up because I loved him so much and never wanted to leave him or have him see me injured. All those years riding and a year racing them I never had but one accident of note. It was like I had a invisible shield around me. Should have been dead many times over.

 

At his graduation celebration I gave a toast. Different than many parents I told my son to go out in the world and to make mistakes. Not little mistakes but go and live it and make big mistakes. Live free and take chances. Never succumb to the paralyzing spell of adulthood. 

 

All I can tell you Amy is there are many days when I am questioning whether I should have bought him that bike or given that toast, that the guilt in doing so drops me to my knees. There is only one thing that keeps me from blowing my brains out and lifts me back up to get in his car and race it as he did; and that is hearing him say in my head as he did in person, that he wanted it no other way than to live as he did; as we did together. The things we did some people live their whole lives without living as much as he did in 18 years. With much trepidation I would tell you to live. How you live..........well only you know what that should be. But live as you would without fear and know that you walk the planet as one of its wild and native creatures.

 

I have no idea if this advice is right. Not sure life will ever choose to show me if it is right or not.

Jamz, we don't know each other and I wasn't privileged to know your son. I don't have kids so I can only imagine your pain. I do know about the love of motorcycles. You can teach someone to ride but either they love it and have a deep passion for it or they don't. You could have kept him off the bike for a while but what ever drew him to two wheels would have been there and he would have ridden.

I am a retired cop. I have been eye witness to many tragedies and the aftermath of tragedies. For a long time I tried to figure the "why" out. You can't. I believe in a God. When it is your time to be called to a better place, we must go. I believe you will be together again. You will have to wait until it's your time.

 

Your advice is how I've tried to live my life. It's the advice I would have given my son. The advice I would humbly give you is cherish the time you had with him, the love you felt. You experienced something I never will.

 

Peace be with you Jamz