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#1
Alberto

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Trying to remove some weight from the car to make up for the personal ballast I'm carrying around and have some questions.  I'm working on the personal ballast as well...

 

Is it legal to remove:

- passenger side corner window

- windshield washer tank

- the big metal bracket that the underhood fuse box and washer bottle attach to

- wipers

- wiper motor

- headlights

- headlight retracting mechanism

- air bag wiring

 

If not legal, is there a reason for that?

 

Also, why is the heater core and fan blower required?  At least I understand that it cannot be removed...

 

Thanks.


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#2
Bench Racer

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Trying to remove some weight from the car to make up for the personal ballast I'm carrying around and have some questions.  I'm working on the personal ballast as well...

 

Is it legal to remove:

- passenger side corner window  EDIT: Window if vent and duct installed, YES  Sorry, I initially miss read thinking drivers side for exit.

- windshield washer tank  NO

- the big metal bracket that the underhood fuse box and washer bottle attach to  NO

- wipers  NO

- wiper motor  NO

- headlights NO

- headlight retracting mechanism NO

- air bag wiring Yes if you can find a part number for the airbag wiring only and no if the airbag wiring is part of another harness. You may remove the airbag sensors and their immediate wiring to the connector.

 

If not legal, is there a reason for that?  Yes, IIDSYCYC or in short, the rules.

 

Also, why is the heater core and fan blower required? Because the rules don't say you can remove them.  Create a hole in the bottom of the heater tank and allow the liquid to drain out. At least I understand that it cannot be removed...

 

Thanks.

 

What is your race ready weight with you and gear in car?


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#3
Alberto

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^Post race weight was 2,340.  Probably had 1-2 gallons of fuel since I started with 5 empty.  No cool suit.


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#4
chris haldeman

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Is the passenger corner window and frame removal actually allowed? I was under the impression it was not
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#5
Bench Racer

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Passenger corner window alternate if vent duct to driver yes, passenger window frame no.

 

9.1.7.6.i. Ducting may be added to provide fresh air to the driver compartment.

 

This ducting shall be located in the driver and/ or passenger vent window area by means of a transparent/ alternate vent window material and duct with no modifications to the bodywork.

 

To improve driver exit through the window area, the driver vent window and vent window supporting frame may be removed as an assembly.

 

If removed, ducting may be in the passenger side vent window only.


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#6
dstevens

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If not legal, is there a reason for that?

 

Also, why is the heater core and fan blower required?  At least I understand that it cannot be removed...

 

Thanks.

 

Those are holdovers from the dawn of the class that haven't taken into account what the class has morphed into.  In a race car there is no good reason for any of those items to be required (though the heater core is handy for those that race where the windshield can fog).  I think the sense of irony has been lost on a class where you can spend $40k plus on a car yet have to keep some trivial items that don't impact performance.


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#7
Alberto

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^figured as much.

 

The way I look at it is that the elimination of those parts does not pose a safety issue nor does removal offer a performance improvement.  Removing them is likely safer than cutting metal off doors and out of trunks.  I'm dangerous with a cut off wheel.

 

It also makes it easier for us budget constrained, older, fatter dudes making weight in a 1.6. :)

 

I'm going to submit a letter.


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#8
dstevens

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I don't want to discourage participation in rule making but you'll get a "Thank you for your letter.  The rule is adequate as written". That sort of change isn't a priority in the org. Whatever weight you can shave from those items can better be made up in chassis and engine tuning.  As for weight, for an SM like that it's easier to take it off the driver than the car enough to make a difference in your times,  For me having those items on the car was more of a practical issue with regards to building a race car.  Until you can hit long stints on an open track within a couple tenths each lap and have the data curves stack more or less right on top of each other the weight you save from those parts isn't going to help much in and of itself.  It's more about car control and tuning.  It's not until you get to the last tenth or in the case of the national class the last hundredth that those relative few pounds are going to help.



#9
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Dave S., my 1990 1.6 weighs 2020 lb with cool suite/2 gallon water, 1 gallon safety fuel and no driver or driver gear. Have NASCAR side protection tubes therefore doors are gutted, but still have triple thick inside top of door. Let's presume Alberto's car same weighs 2128 lb. without driver and gear. That my friend is 108 pounds more than my 1.6. That is a lot of friken weight.

 

I don't disagree with your tenths and hundredths, but that's not the point of this thread.


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#10
Johnny D

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 Removing them is likely safer than cutting metal off doors and out of trunks.  I'm dangerous with a cut off wheel.

 

 

So you haven't gutted the doors ?  I'll do it.

 

Have you removed the head liner ?

 

Does the 1.6 come with alum hood and do you have one ?

 

You really need your parking brake ?

 

A coach could knock off a few seconds.

 

J~


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#11
Alberto

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I don't want to discourage participation in rule making but you'll get a "Thank you for your letter.  The rule is adequate as written". That sort of change isn't a priority in the org.....

 

I understand that but I felt compelled to write the letter and put it out for discussion.  I don't run nationally only regionally in Sealed SM so I will be pinging our local region leadership on the topic as well.  

You are correct about lap times but not the point of the thread. :)

 

So you haven't gutted the doors ?  I'll do it.

 

Have you removed the head liner ?

 

Does the 1.6 come with alum hood and do you have one ?

 

You really need your parking brake ?

 

A coach could knock off a few seconds.

 

J~

 

Doors are pretty well gutted.  Driver door can lose another 1 lb.  Pass door can lose 2 lb.  That will be done soon.

Aluminum hood

I've thought about the parking brake but it is very handy.  The other parts I listed haven't been used in 6 years of racing.

What headliner?

 

I know about the coach but that isn't the point of this thread.

 

I'm about 195 w/o driver hear (suit, helmet, hnr etc)

 

 

The letter number is 20717 for anyone interested showing support.

https://www.crbscca.com/

 


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#12
Johnny D

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If it were to rain, would you need/want/use the wipers, defrost or lights ?

 

J~


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#13
steveracer

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Unless you're parking on a steep hill, the parking brake and ratchet mechanism in the calipers are way more of a hindrance than help. I have about a 17* slope uphill when I load my car into the trailer, it stays put just fine in 1st gear while I monkey out and put a strap on it.

 

Did you remove the big, heavy insulation from the firewall and rear cowl cover?

 

Insulation from the tirewell in the trunk?

 

Removed the factory tie downs and replaced with featherweight strap tow points?


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#14
Bench Racer

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Seat weight???

 

My 2020 lb. 1990 has an Ultra Shield Pro road race seat which weighs 17 1/2 pound. I use a NextGen Rev and see no reason for a halo seat. Now if one uses a HANS, your going to want a halo seat.

 

What does your seat weigh?


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#15
Alberto

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What does your seat weigh?

 

OMP HTE-R seat is 9.4 kg so 20.7 lbs.

Bracket is reasonably stout.  I'd say 3-5 lbs.  The seat mounting bracket is not an area where one should be concerned about decreasing weight.  I'll gladly keep the weight from that.  Going back to my earlier point, safer to remove the vent window or something than try take metal out of this...

 

 

Unless you're parking on a steep hill, the parking brake and ratchet mechanism in the calipers are way more of a hindrance than help. I have about a 17* slope uphill when I load my car into the trailer, it stays put just fine in 1st gear while I monkey out and put a strap on it.

 

Did you remove the big, heavy insulation from the firewall and rear cowl cover?

 

Insulation from the tirewell in the trunk?

 

Removed the factory tie downs and replaced with featherweight strap tow points?

 

How much does the e-brake stuff weigh?

Insulation removed in all mentioned areas.  

Factory tie downs are gone.  I have steel tow hooks that I can swap to straps.  Thanks for the idea.  

Any skinny guys want to buy some tow hooks? ;)


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#16
Bench Racer

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When the rear brake adjusters remain, they will continue to adjust so that you have more drag on the rear brake pads/friction losses.


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#17
dstevens

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Dave S., my 1990 1.6 weighs 2020 lb with cool suite/2 gallon water, 1 gallon safety fuel and no driver or driver gear. Have NASCAR side protection tubes therefore doors are gutted, but still have triple thick inside top of door. Let's presume Alberto's car same weighs 2128 lb. without driver and gear. That my friend is 108 pounds more than my 1.6. That is a lot of friken weight.

 

I don't disagree with your tenths and hundredths, but that's not the point of this thread.

 

He asked why those things couldn't be deleted.   I was talking about what he wanted to gut that wasn't allowed by the rules, not what he should be gutting per the rules.  If a builder is leaving 100# of legal dead weight, they've missed a bunch.  

 

As for those items that can't be deleted...

 

1990 base model ( happen to have all these things off the car and in the shop, never put the kack back on the car)

 

heater core 6 lbs 4 oz

blower  4/7

 

we can call that 11 lbs

 

headlight bracket 1/12 x 2

headlamp and mount 3/14 x 2 (I left the pop up plate off as you'll need it or something like it to cover the hole in the hood)

retractor motor 1/6 x 2

 

both light assemblies let's call that 10 lbs plus another 2 or so in marker and signal, 12 lbs (didn't do rears)

 

wiper arms  14 oz x 2

wiper rod  1/6 x 2

wiper motor 2/6

wiper bottle  1

 

wiper system lets round to 7 lbs

 

Not bad, about 30 lbs, but if you're in an area where it rains (he's not, I'm not) then no racing those days.  No way deleting that will be allowed.

 

The other brackets, airbag wire, etc, maybe 10 lbs.  Maybe.  Let's be generous and say 20 lbs of new parts to delete.  Unless you are at the pointy end, it's not really going to do anything for you.  



#18
Alberto

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Fwiw, I usually don't run in the rain.  Although I have run a few times at Laguna when it was damp and needed wipers...


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#19
steveracer

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E brake in it's entirety is probably < 10 lbs but the drag induced by the ratchet mechanism in the rear calipers can be significant at the worst time.


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#20
Johnny D

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So you don't race in the rain.

A Coach (lower lap times) isn't the point of this thread.

 

I'd do the Jamz approach and take off the top.

J~


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