121 replies to this topic

[davew]

I can argue lawyer like.

 

Since both front windows need to be down. BOTH being the important word. That would indicate only 2 windows, thus the left and right big windows. Not the little ones.

 

The GCR uses the phrase "vent window" in several places. Thus indicating that there is a difference between the "front windows" and the vent windows.

 

As tennis master Kyle Webb (I do NOT want to see him in one of those short skirts) would say, The ball is in your court!!!!!

 

D

[MPR22]

Both front windows, driver and passenger, shall be down (preferably removed) whenever the vehicle is on track. The OEM window opening on the front doors shall not be filled in with any material, other than the material required to mount a NACA-duct for driver cooling. If used, the NACA-duct shall be mounted in the front, lower, corner of the window opening. The area closed off to mount the NACA-duct shall not exceed 50 square-inches. In rain conditions, a quarter window larger than 50 square-inches may be used in the area normally used to mount the permitted NACAduct, in an attempt to minimize the amount of water entering the cockpit. Enough open area for the driver to exit in an emergency shall remain open at all times.

 

Game, set, match.  It is clear that the SCCA put the egress of the driver above the perceived advantage of losing .25 lbs.  

 

You think Jim Drago can get out of the passenger window with the "vent window" in place?  If he can't fit then the rule should apply to all. 

 

Jim please post your dimensions to the board so we can compute whether or not there is enough open are for the driver to exit in an emergency.  

[Caveman-kwebb99]

I can argue lawyer like.

 

Since both front windows need to be down. BOTH being the important word. That would indicate only 2 windows, thus the left and right big windows. Not the little ones.

 

The GCR uses the phrase "vent window" in several places. Thus indicating that there is a difference between the "front windows" and the vent windows.

 

As tennis master Kyle Webb (I do NOT want to see him in one of those short skirts) would say, The ball is in your court!!!!!

 

D

 

I can bring you some of the fuzy ballz to stuff in the naca duct if your flying polishman gets a little cold.   Dave talking like a lawyer, thats like Stearns talking like a monk... lol

[Caveman-kwebb99]

why the hell is there even a gay arguement here anyway, this site is for heloping trouble shot if the car is running to lean or wont start... 

[Alberto]

Really?  I thought this site is for arguing about all things spec miata

 

Is this a good substitute for arguing about parity?  We haven't had a thread about that in quite some time

[Jim Drago]

Both front windows, driver and passenger, shall be down (preferably removed) whenever the vehicle is on track. The OEM window opening on the front doors shall not be filled in with any material, other than the material required to mount a NACA-duct for driver cooling. If used, the NACA-duct shall be mounted in the front, lower, corner of the window opening. The area closed off to mount the NACA-duct shall not exceed 50 square-inches. In rain conditions, a quarter window larger than 50 square-inches may be used in the area normally used to mount the permitted NACAduct, in an attempt to minimize the amount of water entering the cockpit. Enough open area for the driver to exit in an emergency shall remain open at all times.

 

Game, set, match.  It is clear that the SCCA put the egress of the driver above the perceived advantage of losing .25 lbs.  

 

You think Jim Drago can get out of the passenger window with the "vent window" in place?  If he can't fit then the rule should apply to all. 

 

Jim please post your dimensions to the board so we can compute whether or not there is enough open are for the driver to exit in an emergency.  

6'3 190 lbs, 32 in waist  

Like field of dreams.. If it's on fire.. I'll get out

[Bench Racer]

SCCA Rule:

 

i. Ducting may be added to provide fresh air to the driver compartment. This ducting shall be located in the driver and/ or passenger vent window area by means of a transparent/ alternate vent window material and duct with no modifications to the bodywork. To improve driver exit through the window area, the driver vent window and vent window supporting frame may be removed as an assembly. If removed, ducting may be in the passenger side vent window only.

[MPR22]

SCCA Rule:

 

i. Ducting may be added to provide fresh air to the driver compartment. This ducting shall be located in the driver and/ or passenger vent window area by means of a transparent/ alternate vent window material and duct with no modifications to the bodywork. To improve driver exit through the window area, the driver vent window and vent window supporting frame may be removed as an assembly. If removed, ducting may be in the passenger side vent window only.

And I have quoted another rule that gives precedence to egress.  When it goes to the BOD on a protest I win. You know how I know?  All you have to do is tell the SCCA you will report to their insurance company that they have refused a safety modification to the car that they allow in other classes and magically the protest will go away.  

[Bench Racer]

During arguments, you'll post anything that makes you believe you've won. Do you use the same philosophy building your race car.

[davew]

MPR, I am too lazy today to look up the rule you quoted. Please tell me what page that came from.

[Alberto]

MPR, I am too lazy today to look up the rule you quoted. Please tell me what page that came from.

 

Appendix K

Seems like Super Touring and Tourning rules

[MPR22]

Appendix K

Seems like Super Touring and Tourning rules

It was an STO rule

 

During arguments, you'll post anything that makes you believe you've won. Do you use the same philosophy building your race car.

Yes, please protest me at your convenience. 

[Danica Davison]

MPR, I am too lazy today to look up the rule you quoted. Please tell me what page that came from.

 

Ctrl + F ... Copy/Paste Quote .. Hit Enter

[davew]

Since appendix K is not part of the Spec Miata rule set, it is not applicable. You can not pick and choose various rules from different sections of the rule book.

 

Example: GT1 cars allow wings and slicks. By your logic, SM should then also be allowed wings and slicks.

 

You may use rules from other sections as evidence that the current rule should be changed. But you would loose the protest.

 

Volley to you Mr. MPR

[Jim Drago]

 

 By your logic, SM should then also be allowed wings and slicks.

 

 

we're not? #$%^&, I am going to have to hand back some of those trophies

[FTodaro]

I can argue lawyer like.

 

Dave, did you start the clock? that what i do.

 

This is a fun hypothetical, We cant even get rulings regarding on track conduct that sends cars home in a basket, i think its unlikely that this would ever be protested or questioned.

[davew]

MPR, we are in big trouble now. We got a real lawyer involved       Soon vent window removal will be at the SCOTUS. Which means nothing will ever get resolved.

[MPR22]

MPR, we are in big trouble now. We got a real lawyer involved       Soon vent window removal will be at the SCOTUS. Which means nothing will ever get resolved.

As you and I know, we are having fun going back and forth arguing what appears to be a black and white situation depending on what side of the argument you are on is not always the case.  My intent was to show those that think the world is not always what we think it is.  My job proves that everyday, rules are written and then they are interpreted, sometimes they are just ignored (in my case the government often ignores its own rules).  Lawyers will always have work as long as we write stuff down.    

[davew]

Lawyers will always have work as long as we they write stuff down. 

[Bench Racer]

This rule is for guys that interpret rules to their liking and use rules intermixed from different classes. If the shoe fits, wear it.

 

1.2.3. Interpreting and Applying the GCR A. Interpreting the GCR shall not be strained or tortured and applying the GCR shall be logical, remembering that the GCR cannot specifically cover all possible situations.