Jump to content

Photo

Randy Pobst on Buying Guardrails

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1
Johnny D

Johnny D

    Veteran Member

  • Moderators
  • 6,121 posts
  • Location:Fremont, CA
  • Region:San Francisco
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:88

medium.jpg?1479747882

 

“Easy over that crest!” I shouted from the passenger seat of a brand-new Porsche GT3, as we sailed into Schwedenkreuz at the Nürburgring. Zero response from my lead-foot client, driving like he was still in the Mini track car he was used to. It had been in one ear and out the other ever since we hit the track. Every time he went out on his own, I was genuinely surprised when he returned in one piece.

 

As the Porsche got light over the blind decreasing radius crest, the rear-mounted engine began another of its famous treks to the front, and some too-little, too-late steering correction caused a monster hook-slide that shot us off driver’s right, caroming off the Armco with a frightening “prannnnng”. As we crawled from the wreckage, both of us seemed OK, and an official vehicle pulled up, disgorging a couple uniformed attendants with notepads. Ambulance? Not yet. Tow truck? It is still on the way. First on the scene? The damage assessors.

 

Right on the spot, damage was calculated and the car owner swiped a credit card, even as the smoke was still wafting from the scene. For the car? Already? Some Porsche finance commandos? Not this time, driving enthusiasts. These nattily attired representatives were delivering an on-the-spot invoice for the guardrail! So, even before moving his crumpled, barely broken-in 911, my client paid a sizeable bill to rebuild the wall.

 

This was the first I’d heard of this disturbing new trend. Becoming ever more common in the U.S., this is a complete switch from the days of old, when tire walls and barriers were always the sole responsibility of the track itself. After all, if you drive fast, at some point, you are very likely to go off and hit something. It’s part of the adventure, and it’s way better than even further into the past, when races were held on the open roads.

 

I have been so pleased to see the many new tracks that have sprung up over the last 20 years, and I am all for helping them keep pit lane open. However, something about charging racers for damage to track safety barriers gets under my skin. Maybe because for the vast majority of my career, the tracks handled that, paid for by our rentals and entry fees. What changed?

 

A few years back, as I rolled over the track-crossing bridge into VIRginia International Raceway for another great weekend pursuing my passion, I glanced left as I always do, to soak in the stunning view of the awe-inspiring Climbing Esses in the early morning mist. To my horror, I saw foundations and walls going up. Right next to this Category 5, 140mph, demon challenge of a leaping zig, known to bring whimpers from even the most hardened competitors when things go awry.

 

As I’ve mentioned here before, I wrote a quixotic letter to the track management, insisting that they move those new condo/garages back a good 50 yards, just to get it on paper. After a polite response from the track manager, construction was completed as is, and many a fine machine has met its demise on the back porches of these lovely luxury digs. In fact, my future former girlfriend was one of the first, spinning in someone else’s spilled coolant and backing a nice Cayman into the brand-new tire wall that used to be a hundred yards of open grass. Ever the gentleman, I subsequently offered my car, and something wonderful and too short grew from it. So, there’s that.
 

My point? If racetracks are going to start charging racers for crash damage, then is it not reasonable for racers to now be entitled to charge the tracks for damage to their cars? Maybe if your walls were not so close, the cars would not hit them – or at least, maybe not so hard. Maybe if your runoff areas were better smoothed, then cars would not be launched into dramatic and destructive rollovers?

 

I’m not sure if my beloved Sebring has yet joined this trend, but as I watched a Porsche Cup race this spring from the exit of Turn 1, there was a spin. The driver failed to go both feet in, and rolled back across the track into traffic. One of my clients, a very talented young man, swerved deftly to the grassy verge, successfully avoiding the melee that ensued, completely unharmed. Next thing you know, the car was thrown three feet into the air, landing heavily on its nose, breaking radiators and, in fact, bending the chassis! An old crossroad languished in that green runoff, acting as a stunt ramp that would have made The Fast and the Furious proud.

 

Who can forget Joey Hand’s wild nose-to-tail tumbling ride in a GT BMW at Mid-Ohio, due to a similar circumstance, a track connector and a drainage swale in the runoff shoulder along the back straight?

 

Look, I adore my racetracks and relish the opportunity to push machines to their sublime limits, but what changed? Haven’t safety walls and guardrails always been part of being a racetrack, since hay bales and buried tires, and a normal part of running the place? Isn’t crashing now – and always – a normal part of racing?

 

On the other hand, I have long prided myself on doing very little damage to guardrails, so maybe I’m better off if the poor schmucks who are lying in the hospital bed after a big hit are delivered a $3,500 bill with their pain pills, rather than for my team and sanctioning body to have to pay higher entry fees? Maybe the consideration of this liability will make drivers a little more careful – at least the second time?

 

I’ll tell you this, my friends, if I write a check to a racetrack for three $1,000 pieces of guardrail, roughly the going rate, I want to be darned sure those new rails go in, too. Otherwise, it’s a gouging of the track junkie racers for which these facilities exist.

 

I say this new revenue source for tracks opens a new door that may swing both ways, and don’t be surprised if racers start challenging right back for damage that could have been avoided with better design and maintenance.

 

Words by Randy Pobst
Image by Dave Green


  • Andy L and av8tor like this
2011 NASA Western Endurance Racing Championship E3 Champ
We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#2
Jim Creighton

Jim Creighton

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 430 posts
  • Location:Atlanta
  • Region:Atlanta
  • Car Number:53

At $1000 per piece, I believe I would have to tell the race track that I will hand over the check when they drop off the three pieces of guard rail at my pit spot. Seems if they expect to sell them to me, they should be ready to deliver them.

 

I too go back to the days when Road Atlanta had tire walls painted the favorite color of the owner. Cars would go crashing into them bounce back out and about half the time continue on their merry way, I remember coming thru turn 12 in my Turner 950 S and discovering for not apparent reason that the rear was now where the front had been and thinking to myself that this was not going to be good. The angle that I hit sent be back out onto the track in almost the exact line I should have been in without the 360 revolution. I continued in the lead and finished with no further drama. Much to my surprise, the 360 degree turn at 12 only lost a little over one second for that lap. There was no damage to the car other than a cracked tail light lense and some light blue paint. Now do that with nothing but the concrete wall and you destroy a car and probably have a trip to the medical shack.

 

I too think race tracks should be responsible for damage when they make changes that will obviously damage a car. But, I guess their attitude is you shouldn't be on the their grass and because you ran onto the grass, you should pay for the damages to everything you hit.



#3
callumhay

callumhay

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 163 posts
  • Location:tampa
  • Region:fl
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:35
I'm about as annoyed the second time I read this article as the first. Surely somewhere there has to be a reasonable expectation that paying a fee to use the race facility includes damages incurred. Is the profit margin so low for track owners that they can't factor this as a cost of doing business? On paper this might make sense to some bean counter that thinks a hard day's work involves 4 hours at a spread sheet followed by a 2 hr Starbucks break. In reality this is just bad PR for the track. Unfortunately if they can get away with it, they will. Maybe if they expect competitors to pay for damage they are going to open the door to get sued for issues with the track that led to damage in the first place. A slippery slope maybe. Or maybe more will just autocross where the cones are more forgiving.
  • Alberto likes this

#4
av8tor

av8tor

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 209 posts
  • Location:Ybor City
  • Region:SouthEast
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:121

2 years ago I got tangled up with another rider entering turn 1 at VIR,not a bad crash but my Ducati slid about 15 feet in the grass, clip ons and pegs digging up the sod, Had a bill for $75 stuck to my trailer by the end of the day, for sod damage.



#5
Bench Racer

Bench Racer

    Different strokes for different folks : )

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,508 posts
  • Location:Wauwatosa, WI
  • Region:Milwaukee
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:14

Hey, what's the issue, the high rollers don't blink an eye.


Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#6
Rob Burgoon

Rob Burgoon

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,465 posts
  • Location:San Diego
  • Car Year:1995
  • Car Number:91

If I remember right, you have to pay for landscaping damages if you have an off in the grass at Barber.


Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations!

#7
av8tor

av8tor

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 209 posts
  • Location:Ybor City
  • Region:SouthEast
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:121

definitely you do at Barber, have seen more than one "sod ticket" there.



#8
FTodaro

FTodaro

    Veteran Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,084 posts
  • Location:Columbus Ohio
  • Region:Great Lakes
  • Car Year:2001
  • Car Number:35

Another perspective, having a role in both SCCA and PCA track events, Tracks do charge the region for track damage, oil dry, discharge of fire extinguishers, anything that we do the region will get a bill. In PCA i had the job of delivering the bill to the driver.  In PCA we had to pass it on to the driver.

 

In SCCA our insurance coverage also covers track damage so that is why at least at an OVR Great Lakes race, to my knowledge you will not get a bill.

 

I did a NASA event last April, my steering rack failed I slid off the carousel and bounced off the tire wall. I just received a bill for what they called an "elevator belt" whatever that is. 

 

Also, Track Rental goes up about 3 to 5 percent each year. Your going to pay for it at some point.


Frank
TnT Racing
SCCA Ohio Valley Region
 

Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Donor - Made PayPal donation

#9
davew

davew

    Veteran Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,297 posts
  • Location:Beloit, Wi
  • Region:Chicago
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:72

Road America has been billing for track damage for almost 20 years. Autobahn (outside Chicago) also charges for damage.

 

Road America has a policy that you must vacate the track by 7pm on Sunday. Don't stop and take a quick shower as you pull out for a ride back to Florida. $350 fine for leaving the track late. Hope it was a good shower:-). Road America has time stamped cameras throughout the track showing the transporter with logo and the driver/team owner walking into the shower building at 7:15


  • JRHille likes this

Dave Wheeler
Advanced Autosports, the nations most complete Spec Miata shop
Author, Spec Miata Constructors Guide, version 1 and 2.0

Building Championship winning cars since 1995

4 time Central Division Spec Miata Champion car builder 2012-2013-2014-2017

Back to Back June Sprints Spec Miata 1-2 finishes 2016 and 2017

5 time June Sprints winner in Mazda's

6 Time Northern Conference Champion Car Builder

2014 SCCA Majors National point Champion car builder

2014 SCCA Runoffs winner, T4 (Bender)

2014 Central Division Champion, ITS (Wheeler)

2013 Thunderhill 25 hour winning crew chief

2007 June Sprints winner, (GT1, Mohrhauser)

Over 200 race wins and counting.
www.advanced-autosports.com
dave@advanced-autosports.com
608-313-1230

Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Sponsor / Advertiser - Site sponsor / advertiser... support these guys! Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#10
mhiggins10

mhiggins10

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 192 posts
  • Location:Houston
  • Region:SOWDIV
  • Car Year:1990

COTA charges as well- and it's not even remotely cheap from the registration paperwork I've read for HPDEs.


Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#11
Johnny D

Johnny D

    Veteran Member

  • Moderators
  • 6,121 posts
  • Location:Fremont, CA
  • Region:San Francisco
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:88

So was Randy (and some of you can check with him) having a bad day and venting ?

 

You sign the sheet at the gate giving up all your rights.

 

J~


2011 NASA Western Endurance Racing Championship E3 Champ
We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#12
Peter Olivola

Peter Olivola

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 180 posts

Not all.  Gross/criminal negligence can not be waived.  In some cases it's a fine line between simple and gross/criminal.

 

So was Randy (and some of you can check with him) having a bad day and venting ?

 

You sign the sheet at the gate giving up all your rights.

 

J~






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users