75 replies to this topic

[Ron Alan]

LED uber bright yellow(or red) light is hard to miss along with the flag

[Rob Burgoon]

The cost of implementation at the Club Racing level is prohibitive.  Not just for competitors but race organizers will have to pass their costs on in increased entry fees.

 

 

Norcal NASA has required use of one and it's cheap.  Not sure it's much of an improvement, but it's alright.

[Erik Hardy]

Norcal NASA has required use of one and it's cheap.  Not sure it's much of an improvement, but it's alright.

 

Linky? or more details?

 

I always thought an audio alert would be more effective than visual

[LarryKing]

I was at a race where a driver missed the checker, hit the car in front of him and rolled his car. Do we need a blinker for when the race is over? People holding signs that read "Stop Forest"? No system is perfect but a code 35 maintains racing gaps and prevents the need for red flags. It's on us to be aware. Oops doesn't cut it.

[Rob Burgoon]

Linky? or more details?

 

I always thought an audio alert would be more effective than visual

 

Looks like they dropped it.

 

https://nasanorcal.c...ental-Rules.pdf

 

You set up an old phone or tablet.  I *think* it was on wifi, or maybe it needed service.  I can't remember which.

[Johnny D]

This was one called "Spotter"

scroll down past the movie to see the app details

http://racercaster.com/

 

The other was called "Track Flags"  I think NASA home made version

 

But aren't we talking about knowing you have a Yellow but not slowing down, so the guys behind you can't catch up ?

J~

[Tim Wright]

Norcal NASA has required use of one and it's cheap.  Not sure it's much of an improvement, but it's alright.

J.A.W.S.  The Jacques Andres warning system

available at IOPort 

 

Long story - unfortunately I was personally involved in the incident that led to NASA adding this.

2014 25hr of Thunderhill, driving Jacques Andres two engined mini in the dark. A dead Miata sat partially on the racing surface approaching the bridge at turn 14.

I was closing on another car while both of us where passing an additional slower car. The car I was closing on was more interested in me in his mirrors than seeing a dead car in the dark. This spot is between two corner workers stations and it would be very difficult to see a car in the dark with no lights on.

The other car hit the parked Miata at aprox 100+mph. I have to tell you, watching this made me ill. Horrible. Driver airlifted to hospital, and recovered from massive concussion by sitting in the dark with no light or sound for a month or so.

[Johnny D]

J.A.W.S.  The Jacques Andres warning system

available at IOPort 

 

Long story - unfortunately I was personally involved in the incident that led to NASA adding this.

2014 25hr of Thunderhill, driving Jacques Andres two engined mini in the dark. A dead Miata sat partially on the racing surface approaching the bridge at turn 14.

I was closing on another car while both of us where passing an additional slower car. The car I was closing on was more interested in me in his mirrors than seeing a dead car in the dark. This spot is between two corner workers stations and it would be very difficult to see a car in the dark with no lights on.

The other car hit the parked Miata at aprox 100+mph. I have to tell you, watching this made me ill. Horrible. Driver airlifted to hospital, and recovered from massive concussion by sitting in the dark with no light or sound for a month or so.

 

Basically a flashing light. Not sure that fixes anything with our current issue.

http://www.ioportrac...warning-system/

 

J~

[Ron Alan]

J.A.W.S.  The Jacques Andres warning system

available at IOPort 

 

Long story - unfortunately I was personally involved in the incident that led to NASA adding this.

2014 25hr of Thunderhill, driving Jacques Andres two engined mini in the dark. A dead Miata sat partially on the racing surface approaching the bridge at turn 14.

I was closing on another car while both of us where passing an additional slower car. The car I was closing on was more interested in me in his mirrors than seeing a dead car in the dark. This spot is between two corner workers stations and it would be very difficult to see a car in the dark with no lights on.

The other car hit the parked Miata at aprox 100+mph. I have to tell you, watching this made me ill. Horrible. Driver airlifted to hospital, and recovered from massive concussion by sitting in the dark with no light or sound for a month or so.

Well, 2 different things here are being discussed. The spotter app(now gone)or this year was called track flags are voluntary and require a phone with wifi in your car. Flashes current track status and/or corner status. Concept is fine...implimentation has been weak.

 

The JAWS device is a small flashing LED light mounted to the roof of your car. It is activated by the driver via a switch. Mandatory for the 25HR race. Actually VERY visible and would be tough for any oncoming car not to notice. Worth the $100 NASA makes you spend to race IMO!

 

We had to use it this year after an on track incident and limping back to the paddock. Ironically, one of my other cars was 10 seconds behind the crash. The car we hit got going shortly after us but did not turn on his light. My 2nd car was following another car through turn 8(high speed)when that car suddenly veered left at the exit exposing a limping car(with no light on)...my driver drove 4 wheels off track right barely avoiding a big collision with the slow moving car. Had that light been on he may have been able to react sooner. He passed our other car that also was limping but had its light on and he could see that from a turn away!

[ChaseH]

Linky? or more details?

I always thought an audio alert would be more effective than visual

I agree with Erik. Audio alert systems are widely used in circle track racing with good success.

Most tracks and sanctioning bodies use a Raceceiver.

http://raceceiver.com/

[Johnny D]

But aren't we talking about knowing you have a Yellow but not slowing down, so the guys behind you can't catch up ?

J~

 

How about a rule that a competitor can not gain distance on track while entering/or in a waiving yellow/accident scene and/or has to give back said distance to the satisfaction of the race stewards, exiting the scene?

 

Example, 3/4's of a car distance behind said car entering, slow down through scene, 3/4's has to be maintained exiting

 

J~

[Rob Burgoon]

I agree with Erik. Audio alert systems are widely used in circle track racing with good success.

Most tracks and sanctioning bodies use a Raceceiver.

http://raceceiver.com/

 

Yep, cheap and very effective.

[FTodaro]

I agree with Erik. Audio alert systems are widely used in circle track racing with good success.

Most tracks and sanctioning bodies use a Raceceiver.

http://raceceiver.com/

I could see this system working. what are the cons of using a system like this?

[Tom Scheifler]

I could see this system working. what are the cons of using a system like this?

Based on the (old) one I have:
1. Battery operated so it could lose power during a race if you forget to put in a fresh battery.
2. Its another small item you might forget or lose track of if not mounted in the car (and be prohibited from racing).
3. Reception distance. Our race radios with antennas have issues on large tracks. These will be likely be more problematic.
4. You either have to stick the bud in your ear, blocking sound from your race radio or figure out how to feed it into your race radio wiring (and I guess make it override your race radio). Do circle track guys already have this figured out?

[Rob Burgoon]

Based on the (old) one I have:
1. Battery operated so it could lose power during a race if you forget to put in a fresh battery.
2. Its another small item you might forget or lose track of if not mounted in the car (and be prohibited from racing).
3. Reception distance. Our race radios with antennas have issues on large tracks. These will be likely be more problematic.
4. You either have to stick the bud in your ear, blocking sound from your race radio or figure out how to feed it into your race radio wiring (and I guess make it override your race radio). Do circle track guys already have this figured out?

 

2 ears?

[Richard Astacio]

  I had radio issues almost all year, even with brand new harness. Hopefully with built in speakers and in car radio all the problems will go away. 

A simple lighting system in the car would help. The system can't cost more than a cool suit system?? 

[Erik Hardy]

Ooooooh Promising stuff. Do the corner workers call in every yellow/red/black flag event?

 

I'm not cool or smart enough to know, is there anything stopping drivers from tuning into the track officials frequency as "listen only"? 

[Bench Racer]

 GPS Speedometer

 

Yellow flag rule, reduce speed by 50 % mph. Yup, 50% is noticeable to workers. 

 

http://www.speedhut....CFQkHaQodA1sHVA

[davew]

I do not think that any of the circle track "yellow light or sound" systems would work for road racing.

Tracks are too big

Not workable for local yellow flag situation, or able to determine standing from waving yellow.

Ovals are either yellow or green, no in between and no local yellows.

 

No matter what wording is used, you are not going to stop that one driver from wanting to take advantage of any situation. Maybe he slows to 52% instead of 50%. Or closes within 5/8 of a car length instead of 3/4. We all know when we do it wrong. Simply put, in a yellow condition, local or full course, do not improve your position, do not pass, do not do anything stupid, stay in complete control of your car. Do not endanger safety people.

 

Just as we all want respect for each other as drivers, we need to give more respect to the people who make our fun possible.

 

Dave

[Rob Burgoon]

 GPS Speedometer

 

Yellow flag rule, reduce speed by 50 % mph. Yup, 50% is noticeable to workers. 

 

http://www.speedhut....CFQkHaQodA1sHVA

 

How fast do I need to reduce speed?  What's to stop me from just taking a foot off the gas and coasting as much as I can?