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Revised set up guide

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#101
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Xav, please don’t remove the ebjs or rack spacers from our rules.

So, how about posting your bump steer numbers/dimensions with and without spacers?


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#102
Jamz14

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So how about you posting the real reason you are asking me to post that number?

No comment on th ebjs?
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#103
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Xavier, please don't change our rules. If someone is going to go through the expense of buying Hoosiers to drive an scca event, they can easily remove the spacers.
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#104
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So how about you posting the real reason you are asking me to post that number?

No comment on th ebjs?  

The real reason is because a couple years ago I bought a pair of magnetic dial gauges and was going to build a bump steer gauge and never got it finished. Then with completed gauge I was going to bump steer measure my 1.6. Then I was going to space the steering rack and measure again to check for any improvement rather relying on WHAT people said. Your NA 1.8 would be identical. Did you or did you not bump steer measure your NA 1.8?

 

ebjs, take me out of my misery of not knowing.


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#105
Jamz14

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Sometimes you don't need to measure and have the exact numbers.

I didn't data log my temps before adding a larger than stock radiator and I also didn't dyno my engine before adding an SD exhaust. I listened to what people said, quickly thought about it if it made logical sense and implemented. Same with the rack spacers. It makes sense it would help with how we set the cars up from a stock config.

The short answer to your question is that I did not measure it. It might be fun to do once I don't have 3 jobs and a life outside of racing though.

Bench, I do appreciate the amount of detail you apply to racing. I appreciate analytical thinking and have always admired how you go about doing things. But I just don't have the time to apply the same standards you do at the moment.
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#106
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EBJ - extended ball joint.
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#107
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When I made the rules 'match' I did so with the mindset of improving the class overall. There are a lot of crossover cars between both organizations and from time to time, you'll get a "SCCA sucks, I'm NASA fo' life" and I've heard vice versa countless times also. By keeping the rules 'within reason' this gives people the ability to choose without a significant cost impact. By doing this, it improves the values of our cars across the spectrum for all. The key is thinking long term and what is reasonably justifiable. 

 

WRT, shims, ball joints, tires, etc. - There were decisions done before me and some that are clearly polar in organizational belief. For those who have adapted to the "NASA way" - (shims & ball joints) it would be wreckless of me to just delete them from the rules if they work for us. However, there were other rules (for instance usage of fasteners, etc), that were menial and should've matched. So.. I made them match.

 

With tires, we can all agree that:

1. Hoosiers are faster

2. Toyo's last longer

 

With that being said, I believe that many of us just like the general nature of competition. I've heard someone once tell me they could care less if they were driving on boulders... just as long as everyone else was doing the same thing, they'd be ok with it (clear over exaggeration). Conceptually, it makes sense though. Tires last longer making it more cost effective? Yeah, I'm game. More importantly, Toyo has been absolutely AMAZING to the NASA SM community and the support they give the racers is unprecedented (re: Sebring morning meeting - long story). We are very fortunate to have them and the things they give us they deserve our respect and commitment to branding. 

 

This is definitely the longest post I've ever written =P

 

cheers,

-xavier


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#108
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Xavier, anyone who has ever dealt with you in Spec Miata knows that you have the best interests of your customers close to your heart. You are great for the class and great for NASA. 


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#109
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NASA/SCCA rule sets.

While we do not have the preferred identical rule set, it still should be the goal of both organizations to keep them as close as possible. And if we do that will work. Right now i can get my car legal in both groups with the offset bushing I assume, and the only thing i have to buy when i run NASA is tires. If it gets to much more complicated than tires, then i am afraid you will have lost people. I think we are still good as most of the differences are optional not mandatory, except tires.


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#110
OrangeCrush86

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My car was previously NASA. How can I identify if it has extended ball joints or steering rack spacers? There is no NASA in my area and I just assumed the SM rules were identical for both... until now that I read this.


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#111
Jim Drago

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When I made the rules 'match' I did so with the mindset of improving the class overall. There are a lot of crossover cars between both organizations and from time to time, you'll get a "SCCA sucks, I'm NASA fo' life" and I've heard vice versa countless times also. By keeping the rules 'within reason' this gives people the ability to choose without a significant cost impact. By doing this, it improves the values of our cars across the spectrum for all. The key is thinking long term and what is reasonably justifiable. 

 

WRT, shims, ball joints, tires, etc. - There were decisions done before me and some that are clearly polar in organizational belief. For those who have adapted to the "NASA way" - (shims & ball joints) it would be wreckless of me to just delete them from the rules if they work for us. However, there were other rules (for instance usage of fasteners, etc), that were menial and should've matched. So.. I made them match.

 

With tires, we can all agree that:

1. Hoosiers are faster

2. Toyo's last longer

 

With that being said, I believe that many of us just like the general nature of competition. I've heard someone once tell me they could care less if they were driving on boulders... just as long as everyone else was doing the same thing, they'd be ok with it (clear over exaggeration). Conceptually, it makes sense though. Tires last longer making it more cost effective? Yeah, I'm game. More importantly, Toyo has been absolutely AMAZING to the NASA SM community and the support they give the racers is unprecedented (re: Sebring morning meeting - long story). We are very fortunate to have them and the things they give us they deserve our respect and commitment to branding. 

 

This is definitely the longest post I've ever written =P

 

cheers,

-xavier

Thanks for the work. 

I have nothing but good things to say about the NASA  and the Toyo RR. I was very pleasantly surprised with the driveability and consistency of this tire and the Championship event at Sebring.  


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#112
Ron Alan

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Couple things that SCCA has changed/adopted that NASA should consider...

 

1. Eliminate seat expiration and the silly nonsense of a seat back brace for composite seats!

2. SFI belts being allowed for 5 years!


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#113
chris haldeman

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Add in window nets forever too
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#114
Jim Drago

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Couple things that SCCA has changed/adopted that NASA should consider...

 

1. Eliminate seat expiration and the silly nonsense of a seat back brace for composite seats!

2. SFI belts being allowed for 5 years!

That SFI deal was cabashed by SFi.. They changed the date to not valid after, in direct response to SCCA efforts to make them good for 5 years :(


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#115
Ethomas

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Sorry to revive an old one, but i would love to see an updated setup guide. I used the old one coupled with bits that I found reading thru other threads to setup my car.
I was also told that it is best to do - 1. ride height 2. Corner weight 3. Align as opposed to the setup guide 1. Ride height 2. Basic align 3. Corner weight 4. Final align. Any input on if that matters?

#116
Steve Scheifler

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Everything impacts pretty much everything else. So regardless of order, especially when starting from scratch making relatively big changes you need to circle back to re-check & set everything until it is all where you want it, including re-squaring your string box if using one. That said, from scratch I set height first, then rough in alignment, then heights again. Only then does it make sense to look at corner weights and start planning where to give & take on heights to move cross weight where you want it, and doing that will have at least a small impact on camber and front toe, but if you start with heights being very close that will be minimal. Just don’t be surprised if you can’t get both height and cross to your theoretical target.
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#117
Ron Alan

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Beyond the order question(if everything is close to start last 2 steps aren't supper critical)...the NB chassis tend to run on the tight side. Odds are you will end up with a stiffer rear bar(turn in) and a ride height rake with the rear being higher. 

 

Edit...Steve and I were typing at the same time. His is great advise! To add to what he said about theoretical...this also applies to your alignment settings. Sometimes you have to give you in one area to get another(and if this is extreme you have something bent!). Toe, camber, caster in order of importance!


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#118
Jim Drago

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the NB chassis tend to run on the tight side. Odds are you will end up with a stiffer rear bar(turn in) and a ride height rake with the rear being higher.

HMMMM.. never ran my car in either of those conditions :wacko:


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#119
Ethomas

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Interestingly, on the first setup on my car I only had to sacrifice front camber by .1 and I am still not sure I am getting my caster correct. I ended with front -3.4* camber 1/16" TOE out each and 7.5 caster(I think) 3/4" bump clearance. Rear -3.2* CAMBER 1/32" TOE IN each and 3/4" bump clearance, softest bar setting. 50% cross 52%f 48%r. It only took 16ish hours and 1 really raw back lmao. It felt great for the 9 laps i got before the motor siezed... dang it.

#120
Ron Alan

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Well...I just know what I see and what some of the set up guys local lean toward...but not every car or driver likes the same thing or drives the same way. 

 

HMMMM.. never ran my car in either of those conditions :wacko:


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