20 replies to this topic

[Jim Venable]

Part 1:

 

I cannot press the Whiteline offset bushings into the upper control arms. Big vise, extension bar, lined up straight with flat quarter inch aluminum plate on each end to assure squareness. Totally cleaned and deburred. After a few attempts I measured the bushings and arms three times each with a micrometer and caliper.

 

Bushing outside diameter:          1 and 37/64 inches.

Control arm inside diameter:       1 and 36/64 inches.

 

You read that correctly. The bushing is wider. Has anyone encountered this? If so, did you ream out the bushing to remedy the situation? If so, how much as it needs to remain tight? 

 

I couldn't find this issue addressed on the internet utilizing multiple wording options.

 

I purchased the bushings a year ago in the event there was a machining issue that affects this.

 

Part 2:

 

The directions state not to grease the outer bushing. What can be used if anything to facilitate an easier press once this issue is resolved? 

 

Thank you and much appreciated,

 

Jim Venable

[FTodaro]

Jim, the vise is likely the wrong tool and the problem. I use a 20 ton press and its no problems. I line up the bushings where i want them, then i start them in a Bench vise, then finish them with my press. its important to properly back stop the control arm but i have never had a problem with the 10 to 12 sets i have done. 

 

I do not use any lubrication when pressing it in, and for piece of mine i put a rivet in there to hold it in place. While i have it on my bench. I tack weld both sides of the upper ball joint to the control arm.

 

If this is an early set, be sure the control arm bolt fits through the bushing sleeve as there were some early ones shipped that the sleeve was to small.

[EricJ]

This worked for me.

http://www.harborfre...cles-63279.html

[Bench Racer]

Clean ANY crap out of the control arm inside diameter. Measure the length across your sub-frame boss for axial rotation clearance (1/64-1/32 inch) of control arm bushing sleeves to sub-frame boss. DON'T attempt to press the bushing in across both sides of the control arm. Align and press in one side at a time supporting from the inside of the tube and pressing in from the outside. Used 12 ton Bench Racer press. ; )   IIRC the control arm tube is not round therefor the 1/64 inch press fit equalizes and works well. I didn't pin the bushing because there are absolute minimal forces attempting to rotate the new bushings.

[callumhay]

Jim, I had a similar issue with one or two bushings. I've done two sets and on the second set there was one bushing that I remember was a real pain. I took the paint off the inside of the control arm, I think I used hand soap as lube and with persistence got it in. I was using a harbor freight press. My take on it is that there is a tiny variation in size on either the control arm or bushing. I imagine they want as tight a fit as possible to get the metals to seat. Also I think that not getting it lined up right the first time and then re doing it creates tiny imperfections that make it much harder on subsequent tries. Meaning the metal on the bushing is easy to deform and then it wants to go back the same way. Getting as straight and lined up as possible the first go is the best. What makes it even more frustrating is having to press it out and re do it if the bushings in both sides of the arm are not aligned! Take a break and go back at it ...Persistence pays off. Good luck
Cal

[-P-]

This worked for me.

http://www.harborfre...cles-63279.html

 

seconded.

[William Keeling]

hair spray -- slick when wet and sticky when dry 

[Steve Scheifler]

Agree with all above but add that if you press one back out and in again to get the pair alighned, the arm/sleeve stays expanded and increases so it goes in more easily but increases the chance of rotating later. Do something to pin them.

[Alberto]

Anyone got pics of what the proper positioning is?

Thanks.

[Bench Racer]

Agree with all above but add that if you press one back out and in again to get the pair alighned, the arm/sleeve stays expanded and increases so it goes in more easily but increases the chance of rotating later. Do something to pin them.

Steve, not to start an argument, if were talking WhiteLine offset bushings,  I understand what force (minimal force) is going to attempt to rotate the steel sleeve to in fact require a pin to stop the bushing steel sleeve with a 1/64 inch interference fit from rotating, but don't believe the force will overcome the press fit. If the control arm force was/is 90* to the offset bushing, that's another story.  

 

Anyone got pics of what the proper positioning is?

Thanks.

Alberto, I placed the WhiteLine bushing in a V block and with the offset downward to the V block I used a dial indicator to find the exact lowest spot of the bushing, scribed a line. For the control arm I used some sort of long straight edge and attempted to lay the straight edge from the center of the ball joint through the center of the tube of the control arm, scribed a line on the tube of the control arm. Matched the scribe lines in a bench vise to get the bushing straightly started in the tube of the control arm and then finished the job in a 12 ton hydraulic press. Worked well, no redo.

[Steve Scheifler]

Too late, argument started!

Seriously though, after deciding that the two were just not well enough aligned (for the ling bolt to pass smoothly) and pressing them back out, I have twice been able to press them most of the way back in by hand. Trust me, if you don't get it right the first time, pin it! It may matter just how straight you managed to press it in the first time, or how round (or not) a given arm tube/sleeve is, but I don't care so much why. After seeing how the stretched sleeve doesn't necessarily spring back, I've decided to pin regardless.

The arms were never meant to be used this way. Look closely , they are just thin pieces of flared tubing welded onto the ends. They didn't need to be precisely sized or remain perfectly round when welded or even all that well aligned because they are supposed to contain compliant rubber bushings. Fortunately, like many things Mazda makes them better than they need to be and we can get away with this if careful.

[Bench Racer]

Seriously Steve, maybe I did a good job the first time, or maybe my capabilities are way up there because I've only implemented one set of control arms. It for damn sure isn't because I lucked out.

[Alberto]

Alberto, I placed the WhiteLine bushing in a V block and with the offset downward to the V block I used a dial indicator to find the exact lowest spot of the bushing, scribed a line. For the control arm I used some sort of long straight edge and attempted to lay the straight edge from the center of the ball joint through the center of the tube of the control arm, scribed a line on the tube of the control arm. Matched the scribe lines in a bench vise to get the bushing straightly started in the tube of the control arm and then finished the job in a 12 ton hydraulic press. Worked well, no redo.

 

Amusingly, I can read and understand all of your words but I have no idea what you are talking about...   

[BNaumann]

Amusingly, I can read and understand all of your words but I have no idea what you are talking about...

Translation: try to point the holes toward the center of the ball joint.

[Jim Venable]

Alberto,

 

These may help.

 

http://mazdaracers.c...ffset +bushings

 

Unless I'm missing something, this one appears to have the explanation and pictures backwards for positive and negative camber. Based on Chris Ashcroft's above picture and what I've been told and measured, it's more like eight to eight-thirty rather than nine depending on the car model. Mine is an N/A. It would appear that if one lines the bushing up with the hole in the arm just below the bushing chamber, one would be pretty close to spot on. The nine position may give up a bit of adjustment but well within our needs. Just make sure the long bolt moves freely.

 

Perhaps someone can attest to whether this is correct or not as well as applicable to later models.

 

https://www.flyinmia...ic_bushings.pdf

 

Jim Venable

[Bench Racer]

EDIT:

Damn Jim, your one picture blew away 90% of the words of my first. Job well done.

Jim's picture is 100% correct and he's 100% correct the long bolt must by finger rotate freely. He's also correct that if the two bushings are installed radially equal, but not aimed at the centerline of the ball joint some adjustment will be lost. Flyinmiata has an issue with their positive and negative camber.

 

 

Mr. Naumann has the correct thought process except it needs to be the smallest measured dimension from the bushing inside diameter to the bushing outside diameter which needs to be nearest to and gets aimed to the center of the ball joint. If two bushing holes are radially not aligned the long bolt will not freely fit through both bushings.

 

Alberto, with Jim's picture you should be good to go. If verbal support is needed, pm me your phone number and I'll talk you through my first post.

[Alberto]

Thanks Jim!

 

 

Perhaps someone can attest to whether this is correct or not as well as applicable to later models.

 

https://www.flyinmia...ic_bushings.pdf

 

Jim Venable

 

 

That pic would be correct for lower control arm bushings - which are not legal for Spec Miata.

[Jim Venable]

Alberto,

 

First I am humbled in a good way by Bench's reply only to eat humble pie by your reply. "Lord puff me down."

 

In my hurry to help, I lived up to the slogan: "Haste makes Waste". Upon re-reading the Flyin Miata article, I see it's describing the rear bushings. My bad. However, my explanation about the 8 - 9 o'clock location will serve the installation well which is confirmed by the picture Chris submitted asking for confirmation if he installed the offset bushings correctly or utilizing Bench's guideline. Pictures are good. Less reading. Less thinking.

 

Another way to confirm the location is to hold the control arm upright as Chris did which shows the offset in the 5 - 5:30 position. Either way, aim the offset towards the V shaped hole below the bushing chamber. 

 

Hopefully there is no more pie coming my way but if needed from anyone, please do so that we all have the correct information. 

 

Jim Venable

[Jim Venable]

Agree with all above but add that if you press one back out and in again to get the pair alighned, the arm/sleeve stays expanded and increases so it goes in more easily but increases the chance of rotating later. Do something to pin them.

 

Steve,

 

In the event ones finds the need to pin the bushing, what size rivet did you use?

With the outer bushing and arm being of steel, did you use steel or aluminum or does it really mater?

[Bench Racer]

Hopefully there is no more pie coming my way but if needed from anyone, please do so that we all have the correct information. 

 

Jim Venable

Jim, if someone doesn't know the taste of humble pie, it's because they never did anything. As for my communication, Drago  has always thought my written communication was a little off. Note, I didn't say the information communicated was not good, BUT, the communication vehicle is not so good.

 

Have Fun

David