79 replies to this topic

[Peter Olivola]

That wasn't a Rational.  Originated in RMDiv (before I moved here,) a Rational allowed regional drivers and classes to compete within National race groups.  As of April, Majors (but not Super Tour events) may do the same thing.

 

The Great Lakes Div use to hold "Rationals" - a regional race group within a National weekend. They were great fun - regional racers got to join the party while having their own group, thus staying out of the national racer's way.

[Todd Green]

As Ralph posted, (some of) you guys are blessed with SM-only run groups.  Try running in a smaller region (and/or NASA) where 20+ seconds between cars is the norm.  The speed differential, as far as danger goes, between two Miatas is nothing compared to having a GT3 Cup car or Super Trofeo (sans restrictors of course) bearing down on you.

 

IMO the issue here isn't speed per se, it is one of experience.  It is very difficult to have large fields of very experienced and fast drivers with a lot on the line and to also have someone just breaking into racing.  Being slow, unpredictable, knowing when to race and not knowing how to work with traffic to let them by seem to be the issue from the bit of the vids I watched.

 

Of course it is easy to bitch, hard to solve the issue.  The club wants to be inclusive, but yet hold marquee events.  Don't know how you reconcile that.  I guess I agree with the others that the most effective solution would be to reach out to the gentlemen and help him with some coaching.  Make him aware of track etiquette for when he's getting lapped and how to work with traffic.  Throw out the carrot by also helping him get faster.  In my experience it only takes a few sessions working with someone to knock off the vast majority of their time when they are that far off.  

 

Best of luck.

[David L]

Here is what can happen when the leaders are lapping a car on LAP 9. Its not good for anyone involved https://youtu.be/achBjle8ND8?t=873

Needless to say I don't think it should be taboo to tell someone they do not belong, for safety reason. 

 

My wife was on the radio from the balconys.

[MPR22]

Here is what can happen when the leaders are lapping a car on LAP 9. Its not good for anyone involved https://youtu.be/achBjle8ND8?t=873

Needless to say I don't think it should be taboo to tell someone they do not belong, for safety reason. 

 

My wife was on the radio from the balconys.

"I'm fine, 100% fine.  My car is F&&&&&&CKED and that A hole probably just drove on like nothing happened, but I am fine"  

 

Sorry for your loss, even though it was a few years ago. 

[MPR22]

for those of you pointing out mixed run groups.  We are talking SM Super Tour events.  These were designed and marketed to bring out the best of the best SM pilots in the country.  They were not marketed as come on out and run with the best and hope you don't get wrecked by the FNG.  

 

Believe me I was the FNG once upon a time and I had no business being on the same track as the typical SM Super Tour field.  I even once had Balake vigorously explain to me how to reenter the track after an off in front of my wife and kids.   I got the better end of that conversation as Balake's mom was standing by and grabbed him by the ear and took him behind the trailer for a real ass chewing.

[LarryKing]

 

​That wasn't a Rational.

 

[Peter Olivola]

https://en.wikipedia...ternative_facts

[FTodaro]

for those of you pointing out mixed run groups.  We are talking SM Super Tour events.  These were designed and marketed to bring out the best of the best SM pilots in the country.  They were not marketed as come on out and run with the best and hope you don't get wrecked by the FNG.  

 

Believe me I was the FNG once upon a time and I had no business being on the same track as the typical SM Super Tour field.  I even once had Balake vigorously explain to me how to reenter the track after an off in front of my wife and kids.   I got the better end of that conversation as Balake's mom was standing by and grabbed him by the ear and took him behind the trailer for a real ass chewing.

You make a good point. This is the "Super Tour".  Minimum requirements for a Super tour should be higher than a Major. We pay a lot of money to run these events, its a hard pill to swallow when you qualifying is done in by catching the same car twice in a 20 min. session.

[William Keeling]

Indy is going to be a full of losers like me -- so if you can run faster than 110% of the lap record maybe just stay home this year

[Brandon]

Willie brings up a good point: what will the "track record" be for the Runoffs?

 

As I understand it, the layout is unique to the SCCA and thus hasn't had an actual race, per the GCR, to establish a class record.

Will they be looking at a "qualifying time average" or something to determine if there's a cutoff to be under?

[FTodaro]

Willie brings up a good point: what will the "track record" be for the Runoffs?

 

As I understand it, the layout is unique to the SCCA and thus hasn't had an actual race, per the GCR, to establish a class record.

Will they be looking at a "qualifying time average" or something to determine if there's a cutoff to be under?

There is no track record. I am not sure how they will deal with it, i would speculate that you would have to be at 115% of the pole

[Jim Drago]

There is no track record. I am not sure how they will deal with it, i would speculate that you would have to be at 115% of the pole

I'm wrapping my front cover in chrome.. I had to deal with it last year.. I wont be this year.

[OrangeCrush86]

Since I'm an SM newcomer. Have they ever split the field? Seems like that could be a big help. Having A and B mains works for a lot of other motorsports.

[Steve Scheifler]

You can make the case that SM & SRF are different than mixed classes in that the qual time gap between the top 25% of the field is typically under one second, and there are often 30 or more closer than the top 3 in other classes. So you get multi-car packs running nose to tail for the entire race. In most other classes a slight lift to make a clean pass of a lapped car is unlikely to cost you a position very often, in SM it can cost multiple.

Given the speed differences in mixed-class groups I don't think that you can sell the "unsafe" angle without admitting that we are less willing to do what's necessary to ensure safety than we would be if the cost of lifting weren't so high. But I think that is a very valid argument at "premier" races, and most definitely at the runoffs.

A simple SM/SRF 107% of pole rule for super tour and 105% for runoffs should be implemented. I call total BS on any suggestion that it is too complicated. Of course there can be exceptions when a known driver simply has car issues or whatever.

Unfortunately, without a huge number of letters it won't happen because the club needs every entry it can get, but since SM & SRF together often represent a substantial percentage of the total turnout I think they could get it done for their classes with enough demand.

[Mike Collins]

WOW... Let me see if I understand this after reading 3 pages. A bunch of over achievers are upset that a slow car racing in one of the slowest classes, in a drivers class with a "spec" car where he can LEARN his craft and advance to other faster classes are upset? This IS Amateur racing...!!!  Yes the competition is great, but understand this is about as entry level as it gets. Cost, consumables, etc.... Blah blah blag "Majors"... it no different than a mixed class a regional.  In the NE DIV BSpec is in the SM with T4, becuase we don't get the majors turn out, we have strong regional series....

 

Lapped cars are a reality. he was within the rules... Go share data, check out his car, coach him up. don't look for a reason to ask someone not to participate. this is CLUB RACING... you want to ask someone not to come who is rules compliant, go race in the pro's... happens all the time.

[Michael Novak]

SCCA-Advertising ---This is just for the Majors level. So there is a expectation that it is the top portion of the racers in the country........

 

 

The U.S. Majors Tour is the pinnacle of championship racing in North America.

This isn't Easy Street. This is where America's best amateur drivers race. It means start-to-finish, wheel-to-wheel action. It's where drivers not only put their cars on the track, they put their pride on the line.

Make no mistake, this is not country club driving. The kindred spirit found here is mixed with fuel and emotion. Adrenaline pumps a little harder here.

Take a close look. It's not for everyone. If you long for the flag that welcomes or denies you, we have a spot for you. Welcome to the Majors.

[LarryKing]

Wow!!! Mike C. said exactly what I was thinking (but didn't want to get flame-broiled for).

 

Did anyone offer to help the backmarker get up to speed on test day/practice? Will anyone volunteer to do so at future events?

 

When my wife started racing an amazingly generous fellow racer spent a test day doing follow-the-leader sessions gradually increasing the pace. It helped her immensely.

 

When this class was regional only it was a lot less cutthroat - jus sayin.

 

PS: The SCCA Majors hype reads like an old Marlboro ad.

[Jim Drago]

WOW... Let me see if I understand this after reading 3 pages. A bunch of over achievers are upset that a slow car racing in one of the slowest classes, in a drivers class with a "spec" car where he can LEARN his craft and advance to other faster classes are upset? This IS Amateur racing...!!!  Yes the competition is great, but understand this is about as entry level as it gets. Cost, consumables, etc.... Blah blah blag "Majors"... it no different than a mixed class a regional.  In the NE DIV BSpec is in the SM with T4, becuase we don't get the majors turn out, we have strong regional series....

 

Lapped cars are a reality. he was within the rules... Go share data, check out his car, coach him up. don't look for a reason to ask someone not to participate. this is CLUB RACING... you want to ask someone not to come who is rules compliant, go race in the pro's... happens all the time.

 

The person in question is not learning.. he is far more even at the end of his career than you, me or Danny Also at the worst track for such an issue. I spoke to the driver at the race and was informed that what I said was uncalled for? I actually thought what i said was not mean spirited at all. I have since reached out and offered help in form of notes from Indy, data and some free coaching help. IMO, INDY is FAR more relevant to those 40 plus than under 40.. IMO, this driver just wants to race at Indy and cross it off his bucket list.  As for the rest I agree, I have always been in the more inclusive club and was roasted pretty good when I was the one who started the run 4 races and you are in somewhere along the way.

 

We really only have one race we all want to win, we should definitely set a real dropping point of 105% or 107% for the runoffs and that's it. If you cant make it in 4 sessions, you don't race. It is our only championship race. 

[Pat Mcg]

Being the FNG I will throw out my 2 cents. The gentleman was slow but still met the requirements as defined in the regulations.  Every SCCA member is part of this club under those rules and as I read them he could race. 

 

I have been that slow guy on the track..  Always stayed in regional until I knew I could keep pace.  Even still..   Probably would not have gone on the track at pace he was running.  But, that's me.

 

He caused me navigate and slow down twice in both races but, his lines and moves were predictable for me.  Although he cost me some time on the lap, it really depended when and where you got stuck navigating him...  kind of the luck of the draw.  I got him in the Key hole once and it killed me.  Cost me a position on second to last lap..   Got him again in Thunder Valley..  5 of us in a train.  He stayed over to the left and we all moved through..   Hey.. that's just how it goes.  Others had him on the straight..  No big deal.  Most of us here have raced in other series.  Chump is a good example of a wide variety of different speeds.  To me its just part of racing.

 

Could he cause an accident?  Yes.  Did he?  No.  Were there accidents caused otherwise for hard racing?  Yes.   

 

I recognize what is at stake here.  The top folks racing were all within a second of each other.... but they all had the same challenges to overcome.  It was not as if he was out there trying to influence the race one way or another.

 

If we don't like the rules or we want to up the expectations for a Major's event.  Put it in the books.  Make it within a second of poll if you only want the top 20 cars on the track.  You can make it as exclusive as you want.  Put a series together in SCCA the Spec Miata Masters or some crazy name.....  We can watch the top 10 duke it out etc... every race.  Our class pays enough I would think this could be done.

 

I am all for changing the rules to require a driver to fall within a upper limit of time on the track.  If I failed to meet it then I would have no problem packing up going home.  Probably just stick around and reflect on how much I suck and what I need to do to get better...  Point is..  I knew the requirements before I signed up.  115% seems very generous for a Hoosier Super Tour event.....   And I am not that fast...

 

 Awesome weekend though!

[Michael Novak]

How about cut one of the SM qualifying days and turn it into a race for all that don't make the main. Top 5 from the B main make the A main...  Everyone gets on track.....