112 replies to this topic

[Brandon]

Let's simplify it and try to define a process first, then we can determine the extent of a role such as a "Driver Steward" would operate.

 

2 Contact Officials (CO) are listed in the sups - to support splitting duties and ensure fairness within their own groups (if they're racing that weekend).

Any contact is reported to the group's designated CO, CO records contact reports** from all involved drivers present.

If all parties arrive in impound for discussion, carry on as normal for any RFA/CSA/protests.

 

If less than all parties to contact arrive (multiple car kerfluffle for example), CO records contact reports** from all involved drivers present.

Party(ies) not present post-race have until the end of THAT DAY'S sessions* to report to the CO to capture their report**.

Failure to report either to impound post-race or to the CO before the end of the day, results in an automatic, and non-protestable, 2-point penalty to your license.

 

COs are granted the ability to submit RFAs to the appropriate steward should driver-to-driver resolution fail and their review deem it necessary.

 

* Typically the end of the last group's on-track session

** Written reports, video, DAQ...anything that can be left to be reviewed by the CO and included in an RFA.

 

Continue to have contact and not report to impound to discuss with your fellow drivers, you will continue to accrue points on your license.

[FTodaro]

Tyler good point, we don't need more politics.

Danny, agree we are 70% improved just by getting the drivers to discuss at the end of the race. If we get that far we have accomplished something.

SCCA should be there under the current rules to step in when there is a serious problem, but the contact impound requires the drivers to discuss the minor incidents.

If we can agree on what constitutes contact we could go that far now, and put teeth into it if you blow off reporting to impound.

I honestly think we could start there and see how it goes.

Better than doing nothing, IMO

[Jim Drago]

I'm going to take a sit back and let me know what you guys work out and I'll abide to it philosophy

[Johnny D]

Whatever you guys do, I'd do a mandatory drivers meeting before the 1st race, maybe the 2nd day if needed.

Not everyone is up to speed on what's going on, Like the Timing & Scoring Driver Display at Mid-O. Somebody may have a question.

Track conditions, entry, exit. Shorten or delayed Qual/Practice. What the Stewards liked or dislike in the prior sessions or are looking for.

Get everyone on the same page.

 

J~

[BNaumann]

If we can agree on what constitutes contact we could go that far now, and put teeth into it if you blow off reporting to impound.

I honestly think we could start there and see how it goes.

Better than doing nothing, IMO

Sheet metal damage. My opinion.

[davew]

Everybody hates mandatory drivers meeting. Put in the supps, hand out at registration Both would be better. But no meetings if possible.

 

 

Sheet metal damage. My opinion.

 

What about no damage contact that spins out the other car

[ner88]

I've said it before....New England region adopted a contact impound several years ago and it worked.

Only requires one Steward.

[BNaumann]

What about no damage contact that spins out the other car

Too grey. If you can't point to the damage it's not something I want to handle hot off the track.

P.S. I guess what I'm concerned about is the 30 minute protest window. If you need to put together a case to escalate something beyond "racing incident," how much time is wasted in impound? Are they going to download my video for me and provide the paperwork? I have no experience in these matters.

[EMatoy]

Too grey. If you can't point to the damage it's not something I want to handle hot off the track.

I disagree. If someone punts you and you lose 10 spots but your car is not damaged your ok with it?

Sheet metal damage or contact that causes loss of control or loss of position should be reason for a discussion and possibly penalties.

[BNaumann]

I disagree. If someone punts you and you lose 10 spots but your car is not damaged your ok with it?

Sheet metal damage or contact that causes loss of control or loss of position should be reason for a discussion and possibly penalties.

You know me. If I get punted and my car is not damaged I call that a win.

P.S. Also when I lost it in one last weekend a lot of acquaintances assumed I was bumped. Who's watching? Do I need to come in and tell someone it was clean? If so I'd rather swing by black flag than drive all the way to impound and wait my turn.

[Tom Sager]

Everybody hates mandatory drivers meeting. Put in the supps, hand out at registration Both would be better. But no meetings if possible.

 

 

 

What about no damage contact that spins out the other car

Agree to all that.  Certainly if contact causes a car to leave the racing surface, those drivers should report.

 

As was stated above, adopt the NASA rule.  Great place to start.  If it needs adjusting after some experience with it, then do so. 

[Johnny D]

Here's NASA rule

 

17.1 Impound
The top four (4) finishing drivers and cars in each class must proceed to impound immediately after the race.
Additionally, any vehicles that have lost any body panel(s), had body contact, and/or have lost any parts (e.g.
muffler) on track must report to impound. Body Contact Report Forms must be turned in to the Race Director or
Tech Official within thirty (30) minutes of the checkered flag. Failing to do so may result in penalties imposed
on the driver. If in doubt about finishing positions the vehicle and driver shall report to impound. It is the
driver’s responsibility to report directly to impound with the vehicle and the vehicle’s logbook at the proper time.
If it is necessary to stop in the pitlane after the checkered flag, no adjustments to the vehicle are allowed.
Taking tire temperatures is permitted.

[FTodaro]

Agree to all that.  Certainly if contact causes a car to leave the racing surface, those drivers should report.

 

As was stated above, adopt the NASA rule.  Great place to start.  If it needs adjusting after some experience with it, then do so. 

I see no downside to giving this a test run This year at one or more tracks or everywhere for that matter.

 

As far as wasting time for a protest, as i see it you have what you need at impound to file a protest, you, the other driver, and a steward.

[OrangeCrush86]

After my contact we got sent to impound. The steward questioned both of us and I talked to the other driver. I said I had no where to go. Other driver said I didn't give him racing room. In my case nothing happened to either of us and I was the one with body damage.

 

I'm fine with going to impound because of contact, but in my opinion it won't have much affect without documentation or repercussions.

 

One lesson learned is that I will be videoing forwards and backwards every race from here out.

[Danny Steyn]

You know me. If I get punted and my car is not damaged I call that a win.

 

With all due respect - getting punted and losing positions is the antithesis of why we race - we are racing to win (or at least to perform at the best of our abilities)

 

Saying that you are there to survive a race without car damage and calling that a win is NOT racing - not sure what it is, but its not racing.

 

Somebody punts me off, I want to see him in impound immediately after the event for a value sharing session 

[BNaumann]

With all due respect - getting punted and losing positions is the antithesis of why we race - we are racing to win (or at least to perform at the best of our abilities)

Saying that you are there to survive a race without car damage and calling that a win is NOT racing - not sure what it is, but its not racing.

Somebody punts me off, I want to see him in impound immediately after the event for a value sharing session

And what do you expect the outcome of that value sharing session to be? A he-said she-said with no evidence to support whether or not the contact caused your off? Like I said, who is calling this in? First thing I want to do if it's for a position that matters is get back to the paddock and review my video. If all you are going to do is talk then what does it matter if it happens now or later?

FWIW I finished 21st last weekend, got the same number of points as 45th, and am tied for 105th in the Supertour standings with about 95 other drivers that have failed to score a point. If someone knocked me out of that position it wouldn't really matter. I don't waste energy on stuff that doesn't matter.

[Rob Burgoon]

Here's NASA rule

 

17.1 Impound
The top four (4) finishing drivers and cars in each class must proceed to impound immediately after the race.
Additionally, any vehicles that have lost any body panel(s), had body contact, and/or have lost any parts (e.g.
muffler) on track must report to impound. Body Contact Report Forms must be turned in to the Race Director or
Tech Official within thirty (30) minutes of the checkered flag. Failing to do so may result in penalties imposed
on the driver. If in doubt about finishing positions the vehicle and driver shall report to impound. It is the
driver’s responsibility to report directly to impound with the vehicle and the vehicle’s logbook at the proper time.
If it is necessary to stop in the pitlane after the checkered flag, no adjustments to the vehicle are allowed.
Taking tire temperatures is permitted.

 

Important to note that you need to get nailed pretty good for NASA to consider it "body contact".  Tire donuts alone don't count.

[Danica Davison]

I'm all for cracking down on contact - I'm lazy and personally hate fixing bodywork.  
 
I think there are too many conflicts of interest between teams, drivers, engine builders, etc to have one driver racing in the class be in a position of power.  Sorry guys.  Maybe someone from another class.

 

 

Shoooot I will do it. Power seems fun! Stearns and Drago got into eachother again ... had to be Danny's fault. Tom Hart wrecked all by himself?  Danny must have pushed him off. Drago hit Danny in the last corner for the win?!? Danny must have been in his way!  Danny's fault!!! DQ and Three months suspension!!!!

[Danica Davison]

Y'all are making this way to complicated. Just copy NASA's system.

 

But that is no fun.  But what we NEED to do is have mandatory impound for all drivers after the race and put up video on a projector and make fun of whoever did something stupid on track. Ain't nothing worse than have all your friends and peers tell you how much you suck, all at the same time.  That will change you quickly.

[Danica Davison]

Somebody punts me off, I want to see him in impound immediately after the event for a value sharing session

 

ooooh this sounds fun actually. Will I get a spanking?