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#41
Steve Scheifler

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H-1B
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#42
Andy Mitchell

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Haha... I started on a PDP-11. And I agree with Mr. Speedwell's observations about software engineering.


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#43
manthony121

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My first computer was a Heathkit H-8, with a clock speed of a blistering 4 MHz, and 4K of RAM!  Before I started getting axle grease on my clothes, I played in the solder resin.


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#44
SaulSpeedwell

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I've dealt with fabulous engineers of both citizen and various visa status, and some that I wouldn't knowingly let program a lemonade stand program or design the bolted joint for a sock drawer knob. 

 

The freshout that deleted all the comments after his code compiled and tested OK???    :fuming: :fuming: :fuming:


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#45
Steve Scheifler

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I've dealt with fabulous engineers of both citizen and various visa status, and some that I wouldn't knowingly let program a lemonade stand program or design the bolted joint for a sock drawer knob.


As far as that simple statement goes, yes, of course. But beyond that I'll flatly claim relative expert status for once. I've been up close and directly involved for decades including multiple years at each of 5 of the leading corporations/organizations in their respective industries, not just in the US but the world. I could positively bury you in irrefutable evidence of the decline of average coding quality and "real" skill sets, the resulting negative impacts and largely unrecognized costs, the blatant and open displacement of people with superior skills and knowledge for lower cost visa holders, and the lowering of salaries for many citizens who remain in the industry. At the core of the issue has been a very effective sales pitch of a deeply flawed model from large IT service providers, followed by many big names in corporate America joining with them to exaggerate and misrepresent the facts and their motives to increase the number of visas granted. And then there is the seemingly complicit but actually just lazy media which blindly parrots most of the rubbish being fed to them rather than actually challenging the "facts" and those presenting them.

Because of the projected future demand which I think you correctly describe, I would still encourage anyone with interest and aptitude in that direction to consider an IT career. In many respects they will be the middle class "factory" jobs of the future and as you say there should be much more focus on training people for them than there seems to be. But we need a much more honest and tightly regulated approach to how any real shortages are filled or it will only get more difficult to attract local talent.

Sorry, sensitive subject.
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#46
MPR22

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As far as that simple statement goes, yes, of course. But beyond that I'll flatly claim relative expert status for once. I've been up close and directly involved for decades including multiple years at each of 5 of the leading corporations/organizations in their respective industries, not just in the US but the world. I could positively bury you in irrefutable evidence of the decline of average coding quality and "real" skill sets, the resulting negative impacts and largely unrecognized costs, the blatant and open displacement of people with superior skills and knowledge for lower cost visa holders, and the lowering of salaries for many citizens who remain in the industry. At the core of the issue has been a very effective sales pitch of a deeply flawed model from large IT service providers, followed by many big names in corporate America joining with them to exaggerate and misrepresent the facts and their motives to increase the number of visas granted. And then there is the seemingly complicit but actually just lazy media which blindly parrots most of the rubbish being fed to them rather than actually challenging the "facts" and those presenting them.
Because of the projected future demand which I think you correctly describe, I would still encourage anyone with interest and aptitude in that direction to consider an IT career. In many respects they will be the middle class "factory" jobs of the future and as you say there should be much more focus on training people for them than there seems to be. But we need a much more honest and tightly regulated approach to how any real shortages are filled or it will only get more difficult to attract local talent.
Sorry, sensitive subject.


Soon we won't have to worry about crappy human programming.

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#47
Walter Vetter

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Exaggerate and misrepresent the facts?! Who in this great again America would do that?
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#48
Todd Green

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One of several reasons why I used vBulletin back when I ran forums (many years ago):
 
Admin CP -> vBulletin Options -> Message Searching Options -> Search Index Minimum Word Length and Search Index Maximum Word Length

Does IPB really (still) not support something like this?


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