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2017 Runoffs SMACK talk thread

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#441
John Costello

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There was a lot of chaos in the kill zone to start the race.  I have posted my 360 video for the start from P35.   Big Contact from the 01 when he supermans the curb in Turn #12.

 

So interesting video here...

Let's rehash what we see.....

1. YOU get into my left rear at turn 2 causing some damage to suspension parts

2. YOU bounce off me into Juan Marchand which puts Juan hard into my left front damaging tie rod, control arm, wheel, and tire

3. YOU continue into Marchand and spin him completely into oncoming traffic

fast forward to the back straight...I realize my car has too much damage to continue.

4. I drop to the inside to go inside the curb in 12 and continue along the grass  driver's right to pit lane

5. Said parts damaged due to the contact fail and the car continues straight over the curb at 12...causing me to "superman" the curb and collect you

My race over. YOU continue on for the race. Marchand's race over.

After the checker YOU protest ME for unsafe driving..... and I get 4 race weekend probation.

My mistake was I should have pulled over after I realized the car was too damaged. I decided not to stop at 12 due to the fact that a caution there would eliminate a potential passing zone.

For that I will take my medicine and serve my 4 weekends.



#442
Danica Davison

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Oh shitttt this is going to get fun ^^ :D


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#443
spencer489

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Kicera - Electrical short
Rutherford - Bearing started to go after contact.
Power - Snapped a caliper bolt...I raced with him almost the entire race it was a blast..
Reynold - Had Drago Rental..car looked clean when it came back in..not sure what happened.

I think the hub finally failed from contact but not contact in the race my RR was hit. my front left was the one that started going

Spencer Rutherford

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#444
Brandon

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Let me be clear...  I havent done it, but i see it as the same problem as the front end. I can only get 3.5 and 3.3 on my car. I would like a little more LEGALLY...  Once we went down the slope with the front --I see the rear as the exact same thing. I would prefer not to find the magic parts --that for some tracks seem to work. 

 

Bushings are easy to tech and then EVERYONE has all of the exact same adjustments as everyone else---seems fair to me. Camber, caster, and toe are all open...  

 

I agree it is rules creep, but it is easier to check for bushings then arms, subframes, hubs and the rest...

 

Please, no more rule changes to "correct" cheating. And do not use the front bushings as justification for doing so as that rule was hastily implemented (as evidenced by the initial rules posting in Fastrack; didn't require hole alignment between the two bushings which permitted dive/caster modifications for example) to correct a perceived problem of "not enough camber" on the front (bent spindles).

 

Look at what was supposedly being reviewed by Tech crew this year: bumpstops.

Running lower gives more camber and is faster (air under car?).

Running lower means running on bumpstops.

Running on bumpstops == infinite spring rate.

Swap out approved FC for something that looks "FC-like" and gain additional usable spring rate.

 

Instead we have someone who utilized a different method of more camber without running on bumpstops or having different ones.

 

No, this cannot be supported or maintained year over year (not that there were issues in 2015 or 2016) but the perception is that's what happens.

 

How about we permit open suspension changes (offsets, extended ball joints) but specify a ride height that negates running at extreme camber settings worthless w/o the lower ride height? There has to be some sort of give/take with this, IMO.


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#445
powerss

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Kicera - Electrical short 

Rutherford - Bearing started to go after contact. 

Power - Snapped a caliper bolt...I raced with him almost the entire race it was a blast..

Reynold - Had Drago Rental..car looked clean when it came back in..not sure what happened. 

It was a blast. Along with Senter, Dean and Brian.

 

Here is my video.  I hope this embed works......

 

I was way to cautious on the start but I really just wanted to get through Turn 1 and have a long race.

 

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="https://youtu.be/jqjB5qzndko" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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Steven Powers

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#446
Preston Pardus

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First off, I am overwhelmed by all the congratulations and support I have received the past few days. It means a great deal to my family and I. I have been waiting to make a post because I thought I would be able to say more however that is not the case, I'm at a loss for words. As stated in my Facebook post, to win the Runoffs would NOT have been possible without the help everyone has given me the past few years. This feat would be impossible for me to reach if it wasn't for the amazing racing community we are apart of.

As many of you know, I was not in my car for the event as Jim stated previously. The boys at East Street Racing prepared an outstanding car for me to drive all week; Jim, York, Mike, Kyle, and Robert deserve all the credit for that. Whether it was getting on the scales after each session or the amazing teamwork they provided, I am lucky I was the nut behind the wheel. It was my first time being close to the ESR group and they made me feel right at home within minutes.

 

The SCCA workers, corner workers, and track staff were flawless all week. There were multiple instances where the race would of went under double yellow in multiple sessions but the staff executed perfectly. Everyone made this an unprecedented world-class event for grassroots motorsports. A major shoutout to Mazda and Hoosier Racing Tire for all they do to provide us drivers with an incredible platform to race.

The race was nervous racking to say the least with many lead changes happening through the race.. I could type for days but I'll make it easy by just posting the video.. It was awesome to race door to door with everyone. Congrats to Selin and Chris as well.



I couldn't do it without the great partners at 5x Racing, Best price Trailers, Daytona 1, MOMO, Special Forces Automotive.

I want to type more but I just can not find the words right now..

 

 


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#447
5X Racing

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On another note probably many racers are running illegal bump stops as lots of racers have bought suspension kits overt the years from multiple sources not knowing that we were not actually getting true fatcats, now the smac and crb has another big problem on their hands to deal with, either make the knockoffs legal or require a good number of racers to go by and replace with actual fatcats.

 

I agree that it is a big problem and it's a shame people were buying non-compliant kits unknowingly, but there's past-precedence with this scenario ala: cylinder head short-turn-radius. The CRB sure did make everyone that needed them go and get new cylinder heads or at least make sure theirs were legal after the 2014 Runoffs! That was WAY more expensive than the $305 kit needed to get the right shock mount kit in place! People had a non-compliant part - whether they knew it or not - so they had to fix it. Builders fault or not. The shock mount kits are of of way more personal accountability thing than the cylinder heads in terms of "I didn't know" and can't be blamed on a third-party as easily as pro-built engines can. The FCM kits carry a part number specified in the rules and need to be installed by the customer and/or shop building the car. This is black and white and as simple as answering (or asking) the question: "Does the kit I ordered carry the part number and come labeled as "FCM-MT-SM-KIT?" If not, then you should question the legality of it.

 

I don't see any reason why they should allow a non-compliant kit to be made legal purely based on the fact that some people already have them. That's punishing the people who have the right parts on their cars and are being diligent about making sure they had the right parts on their cars. Not the right path to take in my opinion. We don't even know if the non-compliant kits are using the same bump stops as the the FCM kits, which would open up a can of worms as they would be allowing something that might work different than the FCM kit, therefore providing an option that some racers feel they must have (or test). It would be like offering two options for a spec tire, some people would feel they would have to have examples of each tire and use the one that worked the best for each track. 

 

Also, there's no basis to even have an alternative shock mount kit. There's no availability issue with the rules-spec'd kits, Mazdaspeed as well as many of your SM parts vendors and shops have them in-stock. I really don't see the need to allow an alternative kit unless there is something fundamentally wrong with the FCM kit, in which case if there is, it can be fixed. If not, then look to open up the rules. 

 

(not a blast at you Kyle, I just see it as a step in the wrong direction)


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#448
Todd Lamb

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We also don't know that the Fatcat kits are using the right bump stop. There is NO part number on the bump stops, as Fatcat is just cutting and repackaging a product from another company (same product and same company that Advanced is using). If Advanced had used the same cutting method, there would be NO way to tell the difference....see the dilemma?


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#449
JRMarchand

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There may be a problem with bumpstop uncompressed height, word may be that variances up to 7/16 of an inch as observed by some at Indy. I personally talked to FatCat himself 3 days before i headed out. My convo with him about the wording in GCR about the bumpstop, led to interpreting that the bstop sags, break-in over time up to a few millimeters. He stated that bstops range from 33 to 35 mm, depending on which side of the car they have been cycled. He did give me 10 minutes of his time, enough that i brought up that i could only get 3.1 on the LR, with 190lbs driver and half tank, with a 1/4 inch clearance to the bstop. The right rear, just under a 1/2 to the bumpstop, but i could get 3.3 out of that one no problem. Something has to be bent or the combo for the right side is cherry and now i must match the left side with new or used magic parts to balance the car. I think the bump rubber needs a minimum uncompressed height spec line eg (30mm uncompressed height at room temp). Something that would enable lowering to gain that extra camber, making the car better, i think i couldve used more rear camber at Indy, then again i shouldve teamed up with Cefalo and damn it why we didnt. The GCR states that the FCM bstop has to be "the genuine" FCM and for the Mazda Bstop it states to be "the unmodified", is that a gray/grey area. If the bumpstop from FCM is genuine how do I tell, shape or roughness of the cut?

The pic attached, is that a legal combo?, now im the high 6's camber, thats a cherry combo

Attached Files


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#450
Todd Lamb

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Take a legal bump stop and squash it in a press for a while.....then tell me what the height is supposed to be spec'd to.

 

There are no simple answers to this issue.


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Full disclosure: SMAC chairman, my opinions do not reflect anything to do with the SMAC unless specifically stated.

Todd Lamb
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Global MX-5 Cup team

 

2017 - Advanced group. I drive flat out, why are there Miatas passing me?

2016 - Moved up to intermediate run group and got race slicks

2015 - First place in novice DE group

2014 - Born

MX5 Cup Champion - Has won a Season in the MX5 Cup Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner Majors Winner - World Challenge Winner - World Challenge Winner

#451
JRMarchand

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Todd, i griped to Ralph about this exact thing, made joke of using the 30ton press, i kid you not, he was looking at me like if i had just seen the light. Smack smack
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#452
FTodaro

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I was totally in the dark that there are different density fat cat type bump stops out there. I hate to say it but this sounds like a problem that is difficult to tech and to monitor.

 

To Me a bigger issue that the allowance of camber because now days i think it is more commonplace for people to set the car up low and make the bump stop a factor.

 

If there is no visual distinction that can separate them out, then you know where that leaves us "make it open" .

 

I am against the ever expanding rule set but how do you protect against non complaint parts?


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#453
Todd Lamb

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How about: The rule is adequate as written - use the FCM kit from Mazda.


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Full disclosure: SMAC chairman, my opinions do not reflect anything to do with the SMAC unless specifically stated.

Todd Lamb
Atlanta Speedwerks
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SpeedShift Transmissions - reliability and performance

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Global MX-5 Cup team

 

2017 - Advanced group. I drive flat out, why are there Miatas passing me?

2016 - Moved up to intermediate run group and got race slicks

2015 - First place in novice DE group

2014 - Born

MX5 Cup Champion - Has won a Season in the MX5 Cup Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner Majors Winner - World Challenge Winner - World Challenge Winner

#454
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If there is no visual distinction that can separate them out, then you know where that leaves us "make it open" .

Hate to get in this pi$$ing match. Put the friken non modified FatCat bump stop in a press and measure forces to squeeze the bump stop and you'll find a visual distinction in a hurry. IIRC the first 3/4 inch of compression gets you and added 75 pounds of per say spring force and after the first 3/4 inch of compression as you continue to compress the bump stop the spring rate of the bump stop rate increases to infinity in a hurry. If you hands are quick enough set your car up with zero bump stop clearance.


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#455
Jim Drago

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Hate to get in this pi$$ing match. Put the friken non modified FatCat bump stop in a press and measure forces to squeeze the bump stop and you'll find a visual distinction in a hurry. IIRC the first 3/4 inch of compression gets you and added 75 pounds of per say spring force and after the first 3/4 inch of compression as you continue to compress the bump stop the spring rate of the bump stop rate increases to infinity in a hurry. If you hands are quick enough set your car up with zero bump stop clearance.

 

Dave

They bump stop kits from Wheeler and Miatacage will test identically as they are all cut from the same part? 

 

Perhaps have 5x come up with a special brand and brand all the new kits from here forward? 

Jim


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#456
38bfast

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Dave

They bump stop kits from Wheeler and Miatacage will test identically as they are all cut from the same part? 

 

Perhaps have 5x come up with a special brand and brand all the new kits from here forward? 

Jim

unless the heights are not the same or they have been pounded on for years. 

 

New thread started


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#457
Tom Sager

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I was totally in the dark that there are different density fat cat type bump stops out there. I hate to say it but this sounds like a problem that is difficult to tech and to monitor.

 

To Me a bigger issue that the allowance of camber because now days i think it is more commonplace for people to set the car up low and make the bump stop a factor.

 

If there is no visual distinction that can separate them out, then you know where that leaves us "make it open" .

 

I am against the ever expanding rule set but how do you protect against non complaint parts?

I thought by now everyone had a set of the Mid-Ohio bump stops.  I usually carry a spare set. 


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#458
Bench Racer

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Dave

They bump stop kits from Wheeler and Miatacage will test identically as they are all cut from the same part? 

 

Perhaps have 5x come up with a special brand and brand all the new kits from here forward? 

Jim

Jim, I understand ^. I was told there was a difference in how FatCat and Wheeler (don't know anything about MiataCage bump stops, are they from FatCat or a different source?) cut the bump stop to usable length. Were each including parts houses to have a moral obligation when we read the rules. I also have an understanding of why this second source came about, as most likely do you. Why have 5X get involved? Have FatCat/Shaikh however identify the bump stops along with the other parts of the kit he sells. Why complicate the issue any further? FatCat bump stops........................................... :bigsquaregrin: 


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#459
Jim Drago

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Jim, I understand ^. I was told there was a difference in how FatCat and Wheeler (don't know anything about MiataCage bump stops, are they from FatCat or a different source?) cut the bump stop to usable length. Were each including parts houses to have a moral obligation when we read the rules. I also have an understanding of why this second source came about, as most likely do you. Why have 5X get involved? Have FatCat/Shaikh however identify the bump stops along with the other parts of the kit he sells. Why complicate the issue any further? FatCat bump stops........................................... :bigsquaregrin:

urgh you keep pulling me in :)

 

First, people tend to exaggerate and love the drama.. Per John Bauer as I asked... The Bumpstops that he dq'ed from Selins car were NOT different lengths, a durometer was never put on them. They were pulled off and looked at because they were installed upside down( cut side facing down) that looked odd and made the appearance in the car look shorter as the domed side usually down gives a longer appearance. When Bauer inspected the stops. the cut edge was rougher( band saw cut) versus his sample which I believe are cut on a lathe.  That was the only difference. End of story.

 

Fat Cat is no longer involved, they never were able to keep up with demand and raised the prices significantly from when we started. That is why others started making/selling the kits. they are exact copies of the kit apparently except for the smoothness of the cut on the stops.   5x is now distributing them for fat cat and/or bought the rights, not sure which. But fat cat is not involved any longer. 


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#460
Steve Scheifler

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Fat Cat got very greedy and was nasty to people who needed individual replacement parts. Glad they are out of it. That’s why I bought elsewhere once. The next time I was at the track and bought what was available there, also not from FC. Unfortunately still overpriced and the QC of the bumpstop cuts was terrible, as if someone was training to cut up chickens with a meat cleaver. Yes, that bad.
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