Jump to content

Photo

CFR Region Tire Question

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1
Ethan Nichols

Ethan Nichols

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 20 posts
  • Location:Florida
  • Region:Treasure Coast
  • Car Year:1999

Hey guys, I'm working on getting my 99 NB sorted out for Spec Miata next year (hopefully)

 

Before I buy tires, I want to ask you Central Florida Region guys which tires I'm allowed to run. It looks like on the updated GCR, the only tires allowed are the Hoosier SM7s, and H20's, but it says this is for regional and majors competition. Would starting out in CFR/SARRC division place me in the "regional" class? Does anyone know if I can run Toyo Proxes R888Rs? Can I run any other tires? 

 

I couldn't find any region specific rules so I figured I'd ask those who know! Hoosiers are expensive, not suitable for the road, and they don't last long from what I've read.  

 

Thanks guys,

 

Take care, Drive hard.

 

-Ethan N. 

 

Quote From September's GCR: 

 

 

c. Tires: 1. Regional and Majors Competition All cars shall use the P205/50ZR15 Hoosier “SM7” Spec Miata Dry or the P205/50R15 Hoosier “H2O” Spec Miata Wet tires.

 



#2
Danica Davison

Danica Davison

    Always the bridesmaid never the bride

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,027 posts
  • Location:Jacksonville Biatch
  • Region:Central Florida
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:10

Hi Ethan, I run in the CFR as well. The only tires you are allowed to run either regionally/majors, is the Hoosier SM7 or the Hoosier H20 (rains).  Toyo's are not allowed. However, if this is your first time racing and getting in to spec miata, I am sure you will run mid pack or further back. I am not sure of your experience level, I am just assuming, because we have all been there.  I do not think most guys will care if you are trying to save some money and you run toyos mid pack or back. The toyos are slower anyways and I just don't think any will care, especially at the regional level. I wouldn't go to crazy though and run something different than a toyo. My first season in 2013, I ran toyos my first few races as well and ran behind mid pack. Nobody noticed or cared. Hope that helps and see you at the track!


John Davison
Autotechnik Racing / 5x Racing
2016 - Central Florida Region Champion
2017 - The People's Champion
2017 - President of DSFC
#itcouldbeyou

Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Chatterbox - Blah blah blah... Blah blah blah Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#3
Walter Vetter

Walter Vetter

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,237 posts
Watch the classifieds after the Runoffs and buy used SM7s. 2-4 heat cycle tires have plenty of goodie left for regional competition.
  • dstevens and Danica Davison like this
2017 - SMSE SEDiv ECR Champion
Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#4
Johnny D

Johnny D

    Veteran Member

  • Moderators
  • 5,460 posts
  • Location:Fremont, CA
  • Region:San Francisco
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:88

in SM

SCCA run Hoosiers/H20 unless the supps say different. Some regions run RR's

NASA Runs Toyo RR's

 

Check all your classes, SM, SMT, SM2, for open tire.

 

Now you can run ITS (SCCA) or PTE (NASA) on whatever tire if your dipping your toe or $ is tight.

And Danica's correct, if your running far enough back in the pack nobody really cares. (regionally)

 

 

 

J~


2011 NASA Western Endurance Racing Championship E3 Champ
We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#5
Pat Mcg

Pat Mcg

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 30 posts
  • Location:Richmond Kentucky
  • Region:Central Kentucky
  • Car Year:1993
  • Car Number:8

Ethan...   You can roll though thousands of dollars in tires quickly in a year.  I recommend you follow Danica's recommendation.  As you are getting up to speed run what you can get your hands on. The top folks running in SM typically remove really good tires after 2-5 heat cycles..  You can usually pick those up cheap...  Pay attention to the manufacture date stamped on the side for those used tires..  They will give you satisfactory performance.  I typically use my 5-8 heat cycle tires for test days.. depending on the track..   There are folks out here that run 2 cycles and remove.  Those are the same folks that are winning tires though..   Here in about 2 weeks there will be lotsa tires for sale...  


  • Danica Davison likes this

#6
Ethan Nichols

Ethan Nichols

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 20 posts
  • Location:Florida
  • Region:Treasure Coast
  • Car Year:1999

Hi Ethan, I run in the CFR as well. The only tires you are allowed to run either regionally/majors, is the Hoosier SM7 or the Hoosier H20 (rains).  Toyo's are not allowed. However, if this is your first time racing and getting in to spec miata, I am sure you will run mid pack or further back. I am not sure of your experience level, I am just assuming, because we have all been there.  I do not think most guys will care if you are trying to save some money and you run toyos mid pack or back. The toyos are slower anyways and I just don't think any will care, especially at the regional level. I wouldn't go to crazy though and run something different than a toyo. My first season in 2013, I ran toyos my first few races as well and ran behind mid pack. Nobody noticed or cared. Hope that helps and see you at the track!

 

Hi Ethan, I run in the CFR as well. The only tires you are allowed to run either regionally/majors, is the Hoosier SM7 or the Hoosier H20 (rains).  Toyo's are not allowed. However, if this is your first time racing and getting in to spec miata, I am sure you will run mid pack or further back. I am not sure of your experience level, I am just assuming, because we have all been there.  I do not think most guys will care if you are trying to save some money and you run toyos mid pack or back. The toyos are slower anyways and I just don't think any will care, especially at the regional level. I wouldn't go to crazy though and run something different than a toyo. My first season in 2013, I ran toyos my first few races as well and ran behind mid pack. Nobody noticed or cared. Hope that helps and see you at the track!

That's great news! Is that more of a "don't ask don't tell" thing, or is that an official O.K.?

 

I'm guessing I'll be pretty mid pack at first. But I'm doing this with the intention to chase runoffs and see if I have what it takes to race touring cars before I'm out of my 20s.

 

I actually came out to Daytona and saw you guys race for the SARRC double smack event, I can likely keep pace with some of the faster lap times once I get settled in with the car, but I don't have much wheel to wheel experience so I'm not going to fight for the front. 

 

That said, it looks like a lot of the drivers below mid pack were having trouble with the basics, (heel toeing, carrying speed, smooth transfer, etc.)  I like to think I can drive a bit, and I was thinking the whole time, man, I could drive right by those guys, but I am on a budget here and can't afford to crash my car. So I'll be extra careful to restrain myself at first. 

 

All that said, I still have a lot to learn. Hot lapping is not racing.



#7
Ethan Nichols

Ethan Nichols

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 20 posts
  • Location:Florida
  • Region:Treasure Coast
  • Car Year:1999

Ethan...   You can roll though thousands of dollars in tires quickly in a year.  I recommend you follow Danica's recommendation.  As you are getting up to speed run what you can get your hands on. The top folks running in SM typically remove really good tires after 2-5 heat cycles..  You can usually pick those up cheap...  Pay attention to the manufacture date stamped on the side for those used tires..  They will give you satisfactory performance.  I typically use my 5-8 heat cycle tires for test days.. depending on the track..   There are folks out here that run 2 cycles and remove.  Those are the same folks that are winning tires though..   Here in about 2 weeks there will be lotsa tires for sale...  

Thanks mate, I forgot that theyre giving tires to the runoffs guys ;) Genius idea!



#8
Mark McCallister

Mark McCallister

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 156 posts
  • Location:Gainesville, FL
  • Region:Central Florida
  • Car Year:1991
  • Car Number:40

Hi Ethan, for a budget model IMHO used Hoosier SM7s are the way to go.  You can find them on eBay and numerous other sources if you ask around.  Different tires have different characteristics and it doesn't make sense to me to learn everything on one tire and then change that big a variable after a year or whatever.  Also IMHO, nobody needs to be spending any thought power on "I wonder if anyone will notice my non-spec tires" or "I wonder if tech will pull a one in a blue moon impound-all" while sitting on grid, it's just not worth having to think about it.  I think you will find a good number of regional drivers who do not carry a set of pristine H2Os though.  Look forward to seeing you at the track!


  • dstevens likes this
Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#9
Jim Creighton

Jim Creighton

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 365 posts
  • Location:Atlanta
  • Region:Atlanta
  • Car Number:53

What Mark Mc says. Plus, SEDiv SARRC rules require you to run the same tire as Majors in SM. There is no "it's ok if you are mid pack, etc."  This rule has been in force since SM had tire rules. If tech sees it, you will reported and most likely DQ'ed.  There should be plenty of take offs available at the Turkey Trot at Sebring in Nov. Go visit with the Hoosier guys.

 

Yes, you can run ITA, ITS provided your car is legal for those classes. Watch out for things you can do in SM but not in IT.

 

BTW, I'm writing this at my RV spot in the Owners/Drivers RV spot inside Indy. Place is really empty!



#10
Ethan Nichols

Ethan Nichols

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 20 posts
  • Location:Florida
  • Region:Treasure Coast
  • Car Year:1999

What Mark Mc says. Plus, SEDiv SARRC rules require you to run the same tire as Majors in SM. There is no "it's ok if you are mid pack, etc."  This rule has been in force since SM had tire rules. If tech sees it, you will reported and most likely DQ'ed.  There should be plenty of take offs available at the Turkey Trot at Sebring in Nov. Go visit with the Hoosier guys.

 

Yes, you can run ITA, ITS provided your car is legal for those classes. Watch out for things you can do in SM but not in IT.

 

BTW, I'm writing this at my RV spot in the Owners/Drivers RV spot inside Indy. Place is really empty!

 

 

Nice mate! How is the track up there right now? 

 

I think used sm7s will be on the roster for me, I just looked up the used prices and they are marginally cheaper than the Toyos anyways. If the two tires handle much differently, then you gentlemen make an excellent point, why confuse myself by learning on the wrong tire? 

 

Now to just make some money for all these parts.....   :optimist:

 

I'm about to make myself sound really stupid here, be forewarned.. But what are ITA and ITS? 



#11
Danica Davison

Danica Davison

    Always the bridesmaid never the bride

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,027 posts
  • Location:Jacksonville Biatch
  • Region:Central Florida
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:10

 
I'm about to make myself sound really stupid here, be forewarned.. But what are ITA and ITS?

 

IT stands for Improved Touring, which is broken out into different classes such as ITA (Hondas, NA Miatas, etc), ITS (Rx7s, NB Miatas, MX5s, etc), ITR (944s and other Porsches, BMWs, etc), ITB (VW Rabbits, Mr2, etc), ITC (even slower Rabbits).

 

These are basically just other classes that you can "double dip" in on a regional weekend, and you can run in ITA if you have an NA miata, or you can run in ITS if you have an NB miata.  However, technically the SM is not legal in IT for some stupid reasons and we got protested because everyone hates running with us SM guys :) . So, the class that we do is STL (Super Touring Lite), which the car is very underclassed for, but the regional competition isn't that strong.  In the CFR, as well as many other regions ... you can run the Spec Miata class for on average, $200 per event, and then you get a discount on the second entry when you double dip into STL or ITS.  So you get double the track time for about $100 more.

 

When you are first starting out, I would encourage the following things: 

 

  1. Run take off tires until you're within a second or two of the leaders per lap. This will help your learning process and make you a more well rounded driver over time. This will also make it so you are spending your money on track time and not the purple crack.
  2. Use the limited funds you do have to do as many double dipping and enduros as you can afford, in addition to SM. Track time is where you should be focusing your spending on and it is a great discount value when you add on enduros and other race classes.
  3. Socialize with other teams and drivers.  If we don't know who you are and we blow by you ... we can't help you...you will just be some car on the track. 
  4. Don't get worried about what part of the pack you are in.  Focus on improving yourself each session, no matter where you finish. Unless you are Ayrton Senna, you are most likely not going to be in the front pack for a while, and that is completely normal.  We have all been there. I autocrossed and did PDX for 5 years before I started racing SM. What a wake up call it was, as I was a pretty good autox driver, thought I was a decent PDX driver, and my first time on Sebring long course I think I was over 10 seconds off pace, starting in 50th+ position. So, do not get discouraged if that happens to you.
  5. Most importantly, HAVE FUN!

  • John Wilding likes this

John Davison
Autotechnik Racing / 5x Racing
2016 - Central Florida Region Champion
2017 - The People's Champion
2017 - President of DSFC
#itcouldbeyou

Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Chatterbox - Blah blah blah... Blah blah blah Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#12
Jim Creighton

Jim Creighton

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 365 posts
  • Location:Atlanta
  • Region:Atlanta
  • Car Number:53

What Danica just said is about the best advise you will ever get in Club racing. Need to go to SCCA,com, club racing rules and read the sections of the GCR that apply to SM, IT and the general (first part of book) rules. That will give you the what I can do's and what happens if I don't.

 

Most of all, as he said, have fun.


  • Danica Davison likes this

#13
Ethan Nichols

Ethan Nichols

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 20 posts
  • Location:Florida
  • Region:Treasure Coast
  • Car Year:1999

 

IT stands for Improved Touring, which is broken out into different classes such as ITA (Hondas, NA Miatas, etc), ITS (Rx7s, NB Miatas, MX5s, etc), ITR (944s and other Porsches, BMWs, etc), ITB (VW Rabbits, Mr2, etc), ITC (even slower Rabbits).

 

These are basically just other classes that you can "double dip" in on a regional weekend, and you can run in ITA if you have an NA miata, or you can run in ITS if you have an NB miata.  However, technically the SM is not legal in IT for some stupid reasons and we got protested because everyone hates running with us SM guys :) . So, the class that we do is STL (Super Touring Lite), which the car is very underclassed for, but the regional competition isn't that strong.  In the CFR, as well as many other regions ... you can run the Spec Miata class for on average, $200 per event, and then you get a discount on the second entry when you double dip into STL or ITS.  So you get double the track time for about $100 more.

 

When you are first starting out, I would encourage the following things: 

 

  1. Run take off tires until you're within a second or two of the leaders per lap. This will help your learning process and make you a more well rounded driver over time. This will also make it so you are spending your money on track time and not the purple crack.
  2. Use the limited funds you do have to do as many double dipping and enduros as you can afford, in addition to SM. Track time is where you should be focusing your spending on and it is a great discount value when you add on enduros and other race classes.
  3. Socialize with other teams and drivers.  If we don't know who you are and we blow by you ... we can't help you...you will just be some car on the track. 
  4. Don't get worried about what part of the pack you are in.  Focus on improving yourself each session, no matter where you finish. Unless you are Ayrton Senna, you are most likely not going to be in the front pack for a while, and that is completely normal.  We have all been there. I autocrossed and did PDX for 5 years before I started racing SM. What a wake up call it was, as I was a pretty good autox driver, thought I was a decent PDX driver, and my first time on Sebring long course I think I was over 10 seconds off pace, starting in 50th+ position. So, do not get discouraged if that happens to you.
  5. Most importantly, HAVE FUN!

 

Wow Danica, thanks for the informative response! You guys are super helpful here, something about Miatas, eh? haha. 

 

I'll definitely be getting some take offs instead of messing around with the Toyo's. And the IT class looks like a golden opportunity to fix the inevitable slow pace I'm going to start with :) 

As for meeting you guys, I'd love to! In fact, I'm not sure when would be a good time, but if I won't be in the way, I will totally bring my NB with some beers in the trunk to the paddock after the race, next time I spectate. I'm pretty sure I saw you prepping at Daytona but didn't want to get in the way pre-race. 


  • Danica Davison likes this

#14
Johnny D

Johnny D

    Veteran Member

  • Moderators
  • 5,460 posts
  • Location:Fremont, CA
  • Region:San Francisco
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:88

This place has a lot of info so look around. You can ask or do a search (use more than 3 letters in search) in the upper right. There's also store/classifieds/blogs, etc. ^^

A lot of us hit the "View New Content" button to see the latest.

 

Here's something you may want to sign up for if you haven't already.

The Mazda Motorsports Team Support Program gives all Mazda racers perks and benefits that make racing easier, and more affordable.

https://www.mazdamot...eam-membership/

 

J~


2011 NASA Western Endurance Racing Championship E3 Champ
We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#15
av8tor

av8tor

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 177 posts
  • Location:Ybor City
  • Region:SouthEast
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:121

Danica, I'm pretty sure that the ITS vs SM fight at Daytona was caused by you busting balls in the garage.  Can't you just get along?  I still can't believe Charlie had the moxie to protest because of our de-powered steering rack.  That changed in the GCR by the way, and STL still requires a driveline hoop so you can bet your sweet tush I am going to protest you next time I catch you in STL ;)



#16
Danica Davison

Danica Davison

    Always the bridesmaid never the bride

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,027 posts
  • Location:Jacksonville Biatch
  • Region:Central Florida
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:10

Danica, I'm pretty sure that the ITS vs SM fight at Daytona was caused by you busting balls in the garage.  Can't you just get along?  I still can't believe Charlie had the moxie to protest because of our de-powered steering rack.  That changed in the GCR by the way, and STL still requires a driveline hoop so you can bet your sweet tush I am going to protest you next time I catch you in STL ;)

 

Well you are all wrong, so I think you just need to take a nap on them faceplant pillows of yours instead of getting on the keyboard!! :P It wasn't Charlie ... it was actually an ITA driver that protested us and it had nothing to do with any shit I started (surprisingly I know)...I was actually trying to diffuse the situation.  See, the ITS guys don't have a problem with us because their cars should beat us with no issue. It is the ITA guys that have the problem because when we are bumpdrafting and running in a pack ... we are running the same times as ITA and we are getting in between their race.  The ITA driver was mad about this ever since the SIC at Daytona because Gary Frierson, who had an ITA car at the time, had Cory Collum run in ITS in his SM and push Gary to the ITA win.  So seeee you don't know what you are talking about :)

 

Also, you should re-read the GCR a little more closely there, Captain. An SM can run in STL, as long as it is in SM TRIM. Once you pull the plate out, you are no longer in SM trim, and you fall under the STL rules. So you can protest me all you want when I beat you in your real STL car ... while I am in my 99 with the plate in ... and I am sure the SCCA will love to take your protest fee that you lose :D


  • av8tor likes this

John Davison
Autotechnik Racing / 5x Racing
2016 - Central Florida Region Champion
2017 - The People's Champion
2017 - President of DSFC
#itcouldbeyou

Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Chatterbox - Blah blah blah... Blah blah blah Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#17
callumhay

callumhay

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 88 posts
  • Location:tampa
  • Region:fl
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:35

 See, the ITS guys don't have a problem with us because their cars should beat us with no issue. It is the ITA guys that have the problem because when we are bumpdrafting and running in a pack ..

 

 

 

 

Soo am I right in thinking that If you have a 1999+ SM and want to run ITS that you should still sign the points waiver?... The whole issue being the de-powered steering rack?  STL still good as you have said.

 

From a practical perspective, often the STL group runs right after or close to the SM group (at least in CFR) so there is not as much rest between sessions. Whereas in ITS there is usually a little bit better gap in between...meaning more rest for the older dotards like me. :). Bottom line as long as we are having fun who cares? :banana: but it's still nice to be able to accumulate points for consistency by showing up in the ITS class...even though an SM car should not beat a true ITS car.  

 

Cal


  • Danica Davison and av8tor like this

#18
av8tor

av8tor

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 177 posts
  • Location:Ybor City
  • Region:SouthEast
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:121

The de-powered rack is no longer an issue, they changed the GCR.  Thanks Danica for straightening me out on the Daytona debacle, I just couldn't pass up the low probability pass.  Yes I agree with you 100% on that read of the GCR, I forgot they put that in there.  They put the similar line to allow ITS to run in STL in ITS trim.  The hardest thing about driving a SM in ITS is not rear ending the living day lights out those guys who stop before turning.  By the way, what "plate" are you talking about removing? 



#19
Danica Davison

Danica Davison

    Always the bridesmaid never the bride

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,027 posts
  • Location:Jacksonville Biatch
  • Region:Central Florida
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:10

By the way, what "plate" are you talking about removing?

 

I honestly can't tell if you are being serious or not


John Davison
Autotechnik Racing / 5x Racing
2016 - Central Florida Region Champion
2017 - The People's Champion
2017 - President of DSFC
#itcouldbeyou

Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Chatterbox - Blah blah blah... Blah blah blah Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#20
Bench Racer

Bench Racer

    Different strokes for different folks : )

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,700 posts
  • Location:Wauwatosa, WI
  • Region:Milwaukee
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:14

I honestly can't tell if you are being serious or not

He doesn't run a plate therefore he doesn't know what you mean by plate. :rotfl:


  • Danica Davison likes this
Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users