46 replies to this topic

[38bfast]

Fat Cat / Mazda Bump Stops Gate 2017

 

So this is what we know:

As called out in the rules only Fat Cat / Mazda bump stop kits are approved. 

Fat Cat / Mazda bump rubbers are purchased from the manufacture and cut to size by Fat Cat. 

At the Runoffs a competitors bump stops were deemed non compliant. The stop did not match the Fat Cat sample. 

SCCA announced to the runoffs competitors after the one car was found non compliant that Fat Cat / Mazda bump stops are the only ones approved for SM. 

 

It appears that there are supplier/s are selling Fat Cat "style" kits. 

 

There is no part number of identifying mark on the bump stops. 

[Mark]

SCCA should publish the spec or develop an approval process for the bump stops so that multiple manufacturers can get involved in the marketplace. Competition will help keep prices in line and avoid the back order scenario that occurs when single sourcing parts. 

[38bfast]

Not as simple as that. Profile, Height, size of the hole in the center, as well as duramater all influence the performance of the bump stop. 

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Having a single source for a product sucks Imo! And I'm not high on the fatcat owner after he came on here and told all of us how we need to have him optimize all.our shocks if we really want to win races!!!

[Mark]

Not as simple as that. Profile, Height, size of the hole in the center, as well as duramater all influence the performance of the bump stop. 

 

Precisely why the spec is published. Publish the spec, manufacture some  samples, have SCCA certify that vendor as compliant. This isn't rocket science.

[Bench Racer]

Ask yourselves, will we ever have a requirement for so many sets of bump stops? Bump stops for every cars requires what, two -three thousand sets of bump stops. Hence there shouldn't be back orders. Has the cost of FatCats gone up since the get-go? Please remember the serious issues we had before the FatCat, issue solved by FatCat.

[Ron Alan]

Fat Cat / Mazda Bump Stops Gate 2017

 

So this is what we know:

As called out in the rules only Fat Cat / Mazda bump stop kits are approved. 

Fat Cat / Mazda bump rubbers are purchased from the manufacture and cut to size by Fat Cat. 

At the Runoffs a competitors bump stops were deemed non compliant. The stop did not match the Fat Cat sample. 

SCCA announced to the runoffs competitors after the one car was found non compliant that Fat Cat / Mazda bump stops are the only ones approved for SM. 

 

It appears that there are supplier/s are selling Fat Cat "style" kits. 

 

There is no part number of identifying mark on the bump stops. 

Was this in qual? Race? who was it and is it reflected in the race notes? 

 

Someone posted fatcat sells 3 versions(all different) of these? Is that accurate?

[Fat Cat]

The Fat Cat bump stops for Spec Miata have always ONLY had one configuration / stiffness. Our Spec Miata bump stops kit use the highest durometer micro-cellular polyurethane that Speedthane makes. A difference in bump stop stiffness can also be identified by weight, if needed, but we don't have a statistical survey of weights at this time. We have never and will never sell anything to an SM racer, SM speed shop, or Mazda Speed Motorsports but the kit which was originally approved by SMAC with any revisions they've later approved (wider spring isolator to resolve rubbing issues). I knew people might attempt to mess with our product (and it turns out I was right via the advanced auto debacle) so I focused on maintaining consistency and uniformity.

 

The authentic Fat Cat bump stops are molded and precision-cut at the factory which provides similar products for major automakers. Our designated distributor, 5X Racing, receives large bags of cut bump stops and bushings which they package into the official FCM-MT-KIT-SM: 

 

http://5xracing.com/...p-stop-kit.html

 

On the topic of identifying marks, on 10/19/17 I spoke with the owner of Speedthane, who said I can have a new mold made with added raised lettering. These could be similar to the 'FCM' currently on the black urethane spring isolator. The Spec Miata bump stop and bushing kit is my proprietary design that I developed with Speedthane's help. They will not sell to anyone I do not designate and I only designated 5X Racing to be primary source. 5X sells direct to Mazda Speed Motorsports and any SM shop or racer who wants to buy direct. I have not heard of any major supply / delivery issues in the past few years.

 

I have asked Todd Lamb in another thread here (post awaiting moderation) if markings are required, which I'm prepared to do on the bump stops. It would take 2 months to have the new mold made and a few weeks to get several hundred units produced. Phasing in would be up to the SMAC. It may take a few months but with a visual guide as already exists the new molded parts would give added confidence. This will resolve any questions about identifying the parts, along with a basic visual inspection. The manufacturing process would be the same, only with the new parts being marked and samples provided to SCCA Tech Dept. for their compliance kit.

 

In terms of quality and complexity, these MCU bump stops and bushings are created through a precise and proprietary process. You can't just pop them off in an oven in your garage. They're not urethane like rubber boot soles but micro-cellular polyurethane. Our supply process has worked, long ago we addressed the problems that arose from the original AWR kit.

 

I'm glad non-compliant kits have been called out so we can guarantee quality and consistency by enforcing use of only Fat Cat parts as one of two SMAC-approved kits (and the superior kit at that). I'm happy to invest in a new mold to simplify future enforcement.

[dstevens]

The most special thing about the part is that it's required if you want to use aftermarket bump stops.   Speedthane makes good quality parts, I used the spring rubbers in the hobby stock.   Others make high performance bump stops as well.    This is a part that is a modified, off the shelf product.    It's something that was found to work well with an SM, not something that was engineered specifically for SM.  It's a pretty tall claim that this is the absolute best bump stop for an SM considering that like all suspension parts it's a matter of personal taste and driving style.  Quality parts but the bump stop isn't why people are winning or losing races.  That's proven by the fact that some guys up front are able to run with clone kits and do just as well as they would with the branded product.

[Fat Cat]

We designed a bump stop kit to work with the 99-05 Miata shock hats and it did the job very well. Spec Miata just happened to have the option to use those hats. 

 

The bump stops in the FCM Spec Miata kit are not 'off-the-shelf' - they started off as cut from a 76mm 'blue' Speedthane when I developed our initial kit before SM came into the picture. But prior to making a kit for the Spec Miatas, I had to make design changes specifically to address fitment on the Bilsteins. Those changes were later integrated into the precision machining operations. You don't get to downplay the work I've done to develop this kit. 

 

The illegal knock-off kit from dave wheeler was based on the parts I sent him (and every SMAC board member) when our kit was being considered to solve the 'shock shaft punching through the rubber mazda bushing' problem. I had no idea someone on the SMAC would decide to make a knock off kit on parts I sent them in good faith, then pass it off as 'fat cat style'. Bad move, clearly. Took a while, but karma's a bitch.

 

Since the illegal wheeler kit was a roughly-executed version of ours, yes, you'd expect it to work overall. The metal parts had terrible finish, the isolator looked cooked on someone's stove top and the bushings and bump stops seemed to be cut on a band-saw. The creation of that kit was a breach of ethics on the part of wheeler being on the SMAC and reflects extremely poorly on SCCA in general. Best you just leave that topic alone and stick to the matter of future enforcement on the approved kit.

 

Will look for an official comment on markings / further compliance.

[BNaumann]

If you make a new mold, where does that leave my unmarked authentic Fat Cat bump stops?

[Fat Cat]

Visually, both would be identical aside from the new markings. I believe the original version should remain legal, because it IS currently legal. Either there would be an intention for all SM to transition to the new part with markings over the course of the year, or to make the new parts optional. But I'm not on the SMAC so it's not my decision ...

[dstevens]

Best you just leave that topic alone and stick to the matter of future enforcement on the approved kit.

 

As The Mooch would say sounds like you're pulling a Bannon.  I'm not discounting your work.  In fact I mentioned the quality of parts.  A couple of times.   And how well it worked.  You're more pissed about your single source deal than about performance.  You don't like someone copied your idea.  I get that.   You don't dig that you aren't getting the sales on the clone kits.  I get that too.

 

The part is basically a member of the lucky sperm club in that your idea made it into a spec part at a time when a solution was needed and the class was in a much different place.  You had the right solution at the right time.  That's all well and good but to come here and unequivocally state it's the best bump stop for SM from an engineering standpoint is laughable because there isn't anything else compliant as an aftermarket part.  

 

It's the best rules compliant bump stop only because those that write the rules have made it that way.  There is no competition.   What it's insured is the development of bump stops have frozen with the price tied to a single source.   I suppose that's limited cost in that there aren't bump stop wars or the bump stop of the week.  I think a better approach would be having a spec and opening the part to those that meet the spec.  Rules are rules and your kit is legal today because it's mandated not because there aren't potentially superior or more cost effective solutions.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Not the first time this dickwad came on here to tell us how smart if an engineer he is. Harken back to his lecture about how we all needed to have our shocks revalved by him to be competitive yet most are still out winning on stock shocks!

Once source is bad for the class especially with his attitude...

His business is already set to tripple after Todd's post and yet that isn't enough for him he even wants to make his original kits illegal by branding of the new bump stops...

I would vote to kill his golden goose!

[Todd Lamb]

If you make a new mold, where does that leave my unmarked authentic Fat Cat bump stops?

Still legal.

[Steve Scheifler]

Then what’s the point really? It’s either obvious which are “authentic“ or it isn’t. A lot of hype around these fundamentaly simple parts.

[Ron Alan]

Hmmm...how incredibly short sided Mr Fatcat. My guess is you just started the wheels in motion for a legal option coming in the near future. Its a freaking piece of foam...that at one point in time could not be delivered...so people were forced to come up with an alternative(Thanks single source rules!). Now you want to come on here and air your grievances??  

 

NEXT....

[Sean - MiataCage]

At this point with the rule, it is somewhat subjective as to what is a "legal" FatCat bumpstop.  Tech would look at the bump stop and compare it to a kit from Mazda, and if it looked different, then tech could rule it non compliant.  I was not at Indy, but I was told that it was very obvious as to the non compliant bump stop due to the way it was cut.   In order to take out the subjectivity in the future (IF) the bump stop were marked in some way then for those who would be in a position to win at a big event and were concerned about the subjectivity they could buy the new bump stop (not the whole kit) to take the subjectivity out of the equation.   

 

It is my opinion that there will not ever be a scenario where the existing legal bump stop that people have already purchased from various vendors would ever be deemed illegal for not having any future markings.  In other words we would never force people to go out and buy new bump stops to get the marked ones.   I guess it could be conceivable that a legal bump stop that has been on a car for years could look very different from a brand new out the bag bump stop and a tech person might find issue with it.   I doubt it, and anyone who were concerned about it could update to the new marked bumpstop for a very reasonable price if they are ever made.

[Tom Sager]

Not as simple as that. Profile, Height, size of the hole in the center, as well as duramater all influence the performance of the bump stop. 

Agree.  It's a spring so we need consistent parts.  I don't care if it's single source as long as it's readily available, cost effective and of good quality and there is product support available.  Usually in a single source agreement there is a price commitment too (unless you are the US Government buying helicopter parts from Russia for the Russian helicopters we donated to Afghanistan).    Take tires for example.  We use Hoosier's which are widely and readily available, of good quality, with good support and there is a negotiated price. 

[5X Racing]

Fat Cat / Mazda Bump Stops Gate 2017

 

So this is what we know:

As called out in the rules only Fat Cat / Mazda bump stop kits are approved. 

Fat Cat / Mazda bump rubbers are purchased from the manufacture and cut to size by Fat Cat. 

At the Runoffs a competitors bump stops were deemed non compliant. The stop did not match the Fat Cat sample. 

SCCA announced to the runoffs competitors after the one car was found non compliant that Fat Cat / Mazda bump stops are the only ones approved for SM. 

 

It appears that there are supplier/s are selling Fat Cat "style" kits. 

 

There is no part number of identifying mark on the bump stops. 

 

Not wanting to add fuel, just to clarify on the "what we know": Fat Cat / Mazda bump rubbers are purchased from the manufacture and cut to size by Fat Cat. 

 

Not true, we (as the manufacturer of the FCM kits) receive them from the manufacturer (Speedthane) already pre-cut to size. What we receive are all three foam pieces (upper and lower bushings, and the 36mm bump stop) as sets (we cannot just buy these three pieces individually), then take the pre-cut pieces and assemble them with the rest of the hardware components and package them into the FCM-MT-SM-KIT kits you see us, our approved dealers, and Mazdaspeed sell. We don't cut the original 78mm Speedthane bump stops into the appropriate sized sections (doing this consistently would be a nightmare!).