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Worth it to Build a New 1.6 Motor?

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#101
Caveman-kwebb99

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so did we decide if its worth building a 1.6 engine yet? I am have big decisions to make here people...


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#102
Tom Sager

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If it's in the budget I say yes.  I think a top-flight 1.6 can win at a lot of tracks and just the fits you'll give the NB drivers with it will make it worthwhile. 


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#103
Steve Scheifler

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By all means Kyle, please do, and don't cut any corners.  I've got an axe I've been waiting over a year to grind and it would be fitting if you supplied the stone. :optimist:


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#104
Steve Scheifler

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I always hear the NB subframes are much better than the NA. How true is that and does the weight break make up for it? If it’s not that big, would the NA8 be the sweet spot?

 

Huh?

 

The front NB sub-frame and matching parts provide somewhat better front suspension geometry.  The NA 1.6 gets to run less weight, but that is based on the lower displacement and torque.  The NA 1.8 is stuck in the middle running the early front end but more weight because it too is a 1.8.  Your question both over-simplifies the confuses the issues.  Best to read at least the last few in-depth discussions and decide for yourself.


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#105
Bench Racer

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Kyle, have you read the Advanced Auto Sports test results from their new 1.6? IIRC, they tested during the mid Oct. weekend at the Farm.


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#106
Caveman-kwebb99

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Kyle, have you read the Advanced Auto Sports test results from their new 1.6? IIRC, they tested during the mid Oct. weekend at the Farm.


No was it good news or bad news?

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#107
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Dave's words within his site. Can't find thread with Dave's commentary.

 

Ran within 0.5 seconds of track record at Gingerman, Road America and Blackhawk. Car is not yet fully sorted.


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#108
Steve Scheifler

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When someone at the front is willing to give up .5/lap I’ve got some cars to sell them.
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#109
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When someone at the front is willing to give up .5/lap I’ve got some cars to sell them.

I'm not willing to get in a long winded pi$$ing match with you. BUT, I am smart enough to look at race lap consistency of other pointy end drivers and say the .5 second could be lessened. IIRC, they raced 3 times and tested 2 times.   :wave2:

 

EDIT:

Go find the 2012 June Sprints Todd Buras video. He hung with 4 99 plus cars entire race and won the race, do to other racers, miss deeds.


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#110
Steve Scheifler

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When someone at the front is willing to give up .5/lap I’ve got some cars to sell them.

 

 

I'm not willing to get in a long winded pi$$ing match with you...

 

Just as well, I'm fresh out of piss anyway, but I do have some crap to sell.


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#111
Caveman-kwebb99

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Dave's words within his site. Can't find thread with Dave's commentary.

Ran within 0.5 seconds of track record at Gingerman, Road America and Blackhawk. Car is not yet fully sorted.


.5 off the track records at all.of.those tracks is that what your saying? Sounds promising there are lots of days we are further then .5 off track records

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#112
Steve Scheifler

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Yep, just like everyone said even before they were given a few things to stabilize performance through the course of a race, obviously overdogs! Go for it Kyle, I see a string of easy super tour wins in your future.
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#113
tburas56

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Still have that motor in the 1.6 from 2011. Jim is building another top flight 1.6 motor for that car. I spent the money on the ACCUSKA diff. Whatever its called.. Bad ass.. Thanks Doc and ESR. Should be another Fun experiment.

Now 1.6 weight is 2275 and all the improvements, could be good, really good..the 1.6 is still a bitch to drive soooo. We shall see...


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#114
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Kyle, contrary to one 1.6 driver's negative comments. The same day/weekend the AAS 1.6 was tested at the Farm, their 99 plus (don't know exact year) was tested and the times were very comparable. Call the proprietor of AAS for the factual info. Is a 1.6 fever going to take over the class, naw but a top prepped car with a top pointy end driver will have some pointy end drivers saying, WTF just happened. 


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#115
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Yep, just like everyone said even before they were given a few things to stabilize performance through the course of a race, obviously overdogs! Go for it Kyle, I see a string of easy super tour wins in your future.

I have NO delusions of being the best driver in this class Steve. I think I will likely do just as well in a 1.6 as my other cars if the 1.6 ends up being one of the best 1.6 cars ever built just as much 99 and my vvt are. I likely will attend 1-2 super tour races in 2018 I am not a big fan of the super tour I liked what we had before the super tour as my work schedule precludes me from many super tour races and further favors those willing to spend the moat, as all the traveling is difficult and expensive.

One weekend with the car and I can say that the Mazda comp diff is a huge advatage over the torsen in feel and drivability. Now if I had compliant shocks on the 1.6 and a top of class engine as well as fuel pressure regulated and dialed in who knows if you look at my times from Sebring I was laying down laps within .1 of each other multiple times with an I'll handling car. Would I have won if the whole car was perfect very doubtful for my first time down especially the way Jamie Tucker was wheeling very tough to beat someone with his tallent, or buras or pardus there.

I decide tomorrow if 1.6 engine is my direction or if I just make the car a rental... Either way my Outlook to win big races I'm doesn't change, it's only getting harder for me to win them as I raced about 5 weekends a year these days.

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#116
Steve Scheifler

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Sorry Kyle, I was being too subtle with my snark.  I wasn't being critical of your driving ability, if anything just the opposite in a backhanded way.  I didn't wan't to spell it out because it doesn't reflect well on me, but I'm still holding a wee bit of a grudge from comments you made awhile back. Nothing subtle at all in your declaration that if the Scheiflers could hold pace with the likes of Jim and a few others, even at our home/best (and comparatively simple) tracks, then the 1.6 is obviously an overdog. 

 

I don't doubt that you are a good driver and I am all for you building up that 1.6 so we can see how it does.  If it's a clear overdog then you are good enough to easily be at the very front, and if not then we'll probably see you lapping pretty much where you would expect to in any of your other cars, give or take.


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#117
Caveman-kwebb99

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Sorry Kyle, I was being too subtle with my snark. I wasn't being critical of your driving ability, if anything just the opposite in a backhanded way. I didn't wan't to spell it out because it doesn't reflect well on me, but I'm still holding a wee bit of a grudge from comments you made awhile back. Nothing subtle at all in your declaration that if the Scheiflers could hold pace with the likes of Jim and a few others, even at our home/best (and comparatively simple) tracks, then the 1.6 is obviously an overdog.

I don't doubt that you are a good driver and I am all for you building up that 1.6 so we can see how it does. If it's a clear overdog then you are good enough to easily be at the very front, and if not then we'll probably see you lapping pretty much where you would expect to in any of your other cars, give or take.


I know the grudge :) what I don't know is how easy it is to get a super awesome 1.6, I'm not willing to build several engines to get there, if I do this it's a one motor and done deal it will be what it will be.

If it's and overdog it may allow me some opportunities to win, but I kind of think I have two cars right now that are overdog but not enough seat time to take advantage of them.

Maybe you will be able to say i told you so... Maybe not either way I still believe what I said at the time was true, but it wasn't meant as any personal attack on you, I think there are really only a hand full of drivers who can really make a couple of.the top guys drive 11/10s every lap, I haven't been able to be that guy but a very few times. Maybe you guys had a great weekend, maybe it was the car maybe a combo of both!

K. Webb
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#118
Steve Scheifler

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It's not hard to get a good 1.6 engine mechanically. Don't believe all the "pro" builder hype, they went to the same school for snake oil salesmen as Shaikh. :yep:

Seriously, it isn't practical to have a head done by a local shop anymore without risk of being non-compliant, but other than that there is nothing special.  I can get dyno results as repeatable as anyone and more so than most, and in the real world (as opposed to the flow bench) I have found very little difference between intake manifolds and with the latest rules the same is true of exhaust manifolds.  Tuned correctly every one of our 1.6s have been extremely close.


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