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Poll: Spec tires (96 member(s) have cast votes)

If racing in SCCA Majors or Super Tour Series, How many new sets of SM& tires are you buying per weekend

  1. not racing in those series (32 votes [33.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

  2. less than one set (7 votes [7.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.29%

  3. 1 set (35 votes [36.46%])

    Percentage of vote: 36.46%

  4. 2 sets (22 votes [22.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.92%

  5. 3 or more sets (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

If given the choice, What tire would you chose as the Spec Tire in SM?

  1. Hoosier SM7 (22 votes [22.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.92%

  2. Toyo RR (66 votes [68.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 68.75%

  3. Other (8 votes [8.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.33%

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#1
Xav

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This year ends the Hoosier contract with SCCA as the Spec Tire.  Since being involved with NASA, I have seen more and more SCCA regular competitors come over and race with NASA and run on the Toyo RR tire.  I have had conversations with many of the drivers from the very front of the field, to mid pack all the way to back packers.  Those that have raced the Hoosier SM7 and the Toyo RR virtually all have the same feedback. 

·        The Toyo RR has 3-4 times more raceable cyles than the Hoosier.

·       There is no need to sticker up with Toyo RR’s

·       You must sticker up with Hoosiers if you want to be competitive

·       At most Super tour races the Front runners are going through two to three sets of tires

·       At most events NASA front runners ( even the SCCA crossovers) use one set or less

·       The Toyo Rain tire can be used for seasons

·       The Hoosier H20 is a one session tire

·       Ultimate lap time of the tires are within tenths, however the RR does not fall off like the Hoosier does after 5-7 laps

·       The Toyo RR can be stored for months with no issues. If a 1-2 session Hoosier sits a month, it is useless as a race tire

·       Tire Budget with Toyo RR will be 1/3 of what is being spent on Hoosiers

 

 

Rumors are that SCCA is going to just extend this contract another year while they decide what is best, possibly due to Hoosier sponsoring the Super tour.  SM drivers are paying for that sponsorship with all the tires SM drivers are buying. This would be an informational poll to just see how drivers feel about this kind of change. From what I know, SCCA is a club where if the majority of the membership wants a different tire, they would honor that. Please comment here and perhaps we as a united SM front can get together and move this along a direction the majority agree on.

 

The poll function only allowed two questions,  But some of the other questions were:

 

 

1)If you run Both NASA and SCCA, how much would your tire budget decrease by switching to RR as the spec tire?

 

No less or possible increase

10-25%

26-50%

More than 50%

 

 

2) Do you race NASA, if so how many sets of RR do you typically use a weekend?

Na

Less than one

Two

Three or more

 

 

Please comment on with any of your experience with either tire.


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#2
OrangeCrush86

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I would also like to add that I don't want to have to shave tires.

 

I don't mind the SM7, but I only race at the regional level where it isn't quite as critical to have new rubber. I do not like the H20 at all and rain is often likely in my region. I couldn't believe how much the H20 was wearing after a single wet session at Black Hawk.

 

One nice thing for me is that there is a Hoosier dealer 30 minutes from my house.

 

In the end I think we have to go whatever is the lowest cost, which is probably the Toyo. Contingency looks to be the same as well.


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#3
Ron Alan

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First off...comparing H2O Hoosier to a RA1 is like apples to oranges. There is NO comparison! 

 

Given the cost of all other Hoosier tires...I always wondered if there is even any profit in the SM7's? No doubt they have done a great job in their fixed prices for SM. And for sure the SM7 is a better tire than the the SM6 was for life expectancy(A change they steeped up and made) 

 

As someone who occasionally provides cars at the track for both organizations, there is no doubt which tire I can keep around longer and trust they have consistent grip for the driver. 

 

Ironically many SCCA regions have either open tire or as in the case with SFR SCCA have Toyo RR/RA1 as their Spec Miata tire. This was done at the request of the membership over 3 years ago locally. 

 

No doubt NASA(which I'm a part off)works with Toyo very closely. There are 4 spec series(at least)that have the RR as its competition tire which frankly...works! Is it the fastest tire? No! When you go outside the spec series classes in NASA to all other classes with open tires...guess what you see(wink wink)...Hoosiers! Because they tend to be the most competitive!

 

Not sure if this is a question that will come down to a majority vote? More than likely it will be decided by those who actually participate in the Major/Super Tour races and the leadership that look beyond SM.

 

Will this be value, choice, marketing or other decision for SCCA?

 

BTW...isn't Hoosier Continental now?


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#4
MPR22

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ok, I have to know, who is buying 3 or more sets for a super tour weekend?  The only person I can think of is Danny and based on how he goes about his business this seems like a completely rational thing.  Anyone else, not so much. 


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#5
Jim Drago

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ok, I have to know, who is buying 3 or more sets for a super tour weekend?  The only person I can think of is Danny and based on how he goes about his business this seems like a completely rational thing.  Anyone else, not so much. 

I haven't voted yet, But I have and will continue to use three sets at the bigger races.. Bought three sets for Sprints and Cota last year. Bought three sets for Cota this year but didn't need bc of rain and short sessions, but bought them. I will have three sets for the Sprints. Every other super tour, I buy two. Runoffs was five :(  

 So my I will vote 2, but it has been three or more three times a year


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#6
MPR22

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I haven't voted yet, But I have and will continue to use three sets at the bigger races.. Bought three sets for Sprints and Cota last year. Bought three sets for Cota this year but didn't need bc of rain and short sessions, but bought them. I will have three sets for the Sprints. Every other super tour, I buy two. Runoffs was five :(  

 So my I will vote 2, but it has been three or more three times a year

How many sets of Toyos did you use last year at the East States Champs? 


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#7
Jim Drago

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How many sets of Toyos did you use last year at the East States Champs? 

I borrowed one set from Chris with 5 sessions... used for 2 sessions in practice

I bought three sets, original only planned on buying two but heard many were shaving, so I ordered a set of shaves as well.

 

I left there with:

a scuffed set of shaves

one set of two sessions

a set of three sessions. ( I used the set of three sessions to run all the qualifying races I needed at Memphis a few weeks ago and they will be my practice day tires at Cota.)  

 

I am buying one set for COTA NASA to test stickers as that is what we will be racing on in the big race. 


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#8
FTodaro

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Its a tough decision about which tire to pick and the cost of running competitive is also track dependent.  For example, my home track Mid Ohio likes old tires so asking me about stickers? I don't run stickers to be fast. I have ran the fastest laps on flat spotted 12 session Hoosier tires. Toyo's are even more extreme, they need to be old bald tires no lines.

So running the RR at my track means they HAVE to be shaved to be fast. It is also real easy to ruin an RR at mid o if you push it to hard when they are to fresh they will grain and then they are slow as shit. So the bottom line on cost is that the RR will get more fast laps at my track but it is costly and time consuming to get them there, you have to race them half the year after shaving to get them fast. So Hoosiers are much faster and much eaiser to work with and no real cost advantage or disadvantage either way.

 

Moving on to the Rain Tire. The last toyo rain i ran was the full tread RA-1, If that is still the rain tire, they are durable but horrible at the same time. I do not like either tire for rains.

 

As far as what tire I prefer, Well to me selecting a tire is more complicated than what tire gets more heat cycles. We have come to count of the Hoosier company for sponsorship and support, so if having someone show up at the track and provide tire support, or having a good contingency is important to you  then there is only one choice and that is Hoosier. Have you ever seen a toyo truck at the track?


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#9
gerglmuff2

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can anyone on SMAC inform us of what they are asking for, if anything, from hoosier? what discussions, again, if any, have been had with hooiser? or are discussions/decisions about that made at a higher level than the SMAC? 

 


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#10
Caveman-kwebb99

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In general, the toyo imo has more usalble cycles, but if its cold or a little wet an old used toyo is going to be slower then a sticker just like it is with hoosiers.  

 

Like Frank I love to contingencies of Hoosier over toyo, toyo to me is a PITA on line where I can just fax my form in to Hoosier a couple days later my tires show up.

 

Track support there is no comparison, Hoosier wins this one by 1,000 miles1

 

Everyone thinks Toyo is so much cheaper and right now it probably is because most of the very fast guys who will shave tires to multiple deapths and have a different tire for each track like we used to do with RA1 are presently doing most of their racing in the SCCA!  Just wait till you get out tired every singles weekend by those willing to test and do their homework with shaved tires etc.  then to be competitve it will be even more expensive.

 

If we change to the toyo rain, I likely will just stop racing inthe rain all together, I already feel the risk vs rewards are on the negative side on the stickiest tire.  I dont mind a harder rain tire in general but the RA1 is designed for the dry not the wet!

 

I feel like Xav painted toyo in very broad strokes to be the best tire choice in his post, being a NASA guy I could see why.  But generalities on the tires are not neccessarily the real story!

 

I am sure eventually this will lead us to a tire limit rule discussion, when we have a hard time checking weights and plates in the tech shed in general!  maybe it can work at a super tour but nowhere else imo.

 

I will be racing a track with the hoosiers this weekend that I just raced on toyo last weekend with no setup changes to the car, maybe i will feel differently afterwards not really sure. If i can remember I will try to post back the findings after compairing my data as well as feel. 


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#11
Johnny D

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It going to be to different stroke for different folk.

 

Depending on club, region, track, driver, and $$

 

Hoosiers has the support back east and Toyo doesn't. Out west it's a different story.

SCCA doesn't have cont for Toyo.

 

NASA supports Toyo for SM and Hoosiers (in open tire classes)

But SM toyo cont go all the back to P14th for $50 for the little guy coming up.

1st  2nd  3rd  4th  5th  10th – 14th
19+ starters  $300  $200  $150  $100  $75  $50
9 – 18 starters  $200  $150  $100  $75  $50  $25
5 – 8 starters  $150  $100  $75  $50  $25 
3 – 4 starters  $75  $50  $25

 

Toyo you can pick up at a number or tire dealers so you don't need to go to the track for tires. I.E. Les Schwab, etc, RR or RA1,

 

Just sayin

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#12
MPR22

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The gap between the fast and the field will be much wider on Toyos than on Hoosiers, doubly so in the rain. Contrary to what the lawn boy posted above you won't have to have multiple sets of shaved tires to go to each track.  The RR is a very nice tire that races well in either shaved or non shaved condition.  It is only faster shaved because of reduced mass not because of a change in grip level.  The RA-1 had actual tread blocks that squirmed when they were not shaved down to 3/32 or less which changed its grip level considerably.     


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#13
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#14
Caveman-kwebb99

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  The RR is a very nice tire that races well in either shaved or non shaved condition.  It is only faster shaved because of reduced mass not because of a change in grip level.       

 

Then for certain tracks with longer straights the shaved tires will be an advantage thus my comment!  glad we can agree!  any advantage will be taken by anyone who really wants to win period if that equated to .050 per lap times 14, thats still a .700 difference at the line. and nobody is gonna give up that advange to another guy, when most wins are within .250 at the end or a race! may not need multiple shaved depths but will certainly need to shave tires!


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#15
OrangeCrush86

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I voted Toyo mainly because when I'm racing at BIR there isn't track support anyways (unless there is a big drag racing event), so that isn't much of a factor. I also don't have much chance to win contingency unless we are below the minimum car count as well. I like Hoosier and they seem more supportive of SM, but for small time guys I don't think the cost is justified. The money the small time guys put in probably just gets transferred to high budget racers getting a free set of tires at the Runoffs anyways lol.

 

If there was an option for an SM8 that has a minimum of 4 more heat cycles, I would probably prefer to stick with Hoosier.


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#16
tburas56

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I love the Hoosier tire. I feel you need two sets per weekend Vs. The Toyo RR's. In race one of the 2017 Sebring NASA champs, I ran a set of 2014/2015 miss matched set of Toyo's. In the 30 min race I finished 2nd to Drago, something like .014 behind him.


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#17
Danny Steyn

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I have stated my tire preferences many times on this forum and while I was a member of SMAC. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. And PS - I use 2 sets of Hoosiers per weekend for Majors and HST, and have for several years.

 

  • Hoosier SM7 / H20 Wet:- Great tire, great company with real involvement and  support of SM. The SM7 is a huge improvement over the SM6, keeps the racing very close, but wears too fast, and you need too many new tires to be competitive. I really dislke the H20, as it is the most expensive tire in the universe. Only one HC and its relegated to a practice tire. But many drivers love it as it makes you feel like a hero in the rain.
  • TOYO RR / RA1 Wet:- RR provides great wear characteristics, Differential between driver capability is exaggerated, especially in rain. RR is faster at some tracks when shaved so you end up having to bring shaved tires to some tracks as well which is a real pain. The RA1 IMHO is a great rain tire as it can be competitive after several HC's and survives for years. However the RA-1 as rain tire is VERY sketchy, I love it, but many hate it. 

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#18
Tom Sager

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I voted "other" for tire choice.  Other might include a Hoosier dry and rain tire with longer competitive life.  As others have said, Hoosier's support since going to that tire has been top notch.  They're often at the track providing service and very easy to work with away from the track when ordering tires, filling contingencies or answering questions.  They've earned the right to continue supplying SCCA SM racers IMO but I feel that a revision to the tire is an absolute must and as soon as possible.  We have to bring competitive tire costs down.  I for one have entered fewer races over the past couple years in part because of the tire cost for a "big" race. 

 

NASA folks are probably very happy with Toyo and rightfully so.  Toyo except for possibly the 888 era has provided a lot of tire stability to SM racers. 


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#19
Tom Sager

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I have stated my tire preferences many times on this forum and while I was a member of SMAC. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. And PS - I use 2 sets of Hoosiers per weekend for Majors and HST, and have for several years.

 

  • Hoosier SM7 / H20 Wet:- Great tire, great company with real involvement and  support of SM. The SM7 is a huge improvement over the SM6, keeps the racing very close, but wears too fast, and you need too many new tires to be competitive. I really dislke the H20, as it is the most expensive tire in the universe. Only one HC and its relegated to a practice tire. But many drivers love it as it makes you feel like a hero in the rain.
  • TOYO RR / RA1 Wet:- RR provides great wear characteristics, Differential between driver capability is exaggerated, especially in rain. RR is faster at some tracks when shaved so you end up having to bring shaved tires to some tracks as well which is a real pain. The RA1 IMHO is a great rain tire as it can be competitive after several HC's and survives for years. However the RA-1 as rain tire is VERY sketchy, I love it, but many hate it. 

 

 

I never had any anxiety with the RA1 in the rain.  Less grip for sure but you adjust yourself for that.  One plus is that it moves a lot less water reducing that blinding spray when you're close behind other cars. 


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#20
Xav

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Just out of curiosity, if Toyo became the spec tire and agreed to have a truck with support to every tour event, would some opinions change?
I can't attest that they would be there but I'm just genuinely curious.

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