170 replies to this topic

[Johnny D]

Just curious too. How long is the current contract on the Super Tour ??
And would there be a Toyo Super Tour ??

J~

[Ron Alan]

So here is something for all to consider...it is my understanding that SCCA gets a cut of every SM7(and maybe others) sold...this was part of the negotiated package. If true and Hoosier has literally offered the best kick back to SCCA...will membership have any real say? And BTW...nothing bad to say about Hoosier...business is business. I do not know the corporate structure of Hoosier/Continental...but would it be fair to say American made? 

[tynor]

I'm curious about the statements about lack of trackside support for Toyo "in the east".   Here in the southeast, Appalachian Tire is at every SCCA event I've ever attended.  Sure, their trailer is painted with Hoosier branding, but they sell Toyo too. I ran Toyos on my IT car and never had any problems getting tires (even pre-shaved) at the track.

[gerglmuff2]

I voted "other" for tire choice.  Other might include a Hoosier dry and rain tire with longer competitive life.  As others have said, Hoosier's support since going to that tire has been top notch.  They're often at the track providing service and very easy to work with away from the track when ordering tires, filling contingencies or answering questions.  They've earned the right to continue supplying SCCA SM racers IMO but I feel that a revision to the tire is an absolute must and as soon as possible.  We have to bring competitive tire costs down.  I for one have entered fewer races over the past couple years in part because of the tire cost for a "big" race. 

 

NASA folks are probably very happy with Toyo and rightfully so.  Toyo except for possibly the 888 era has provided a lot of tire stability to SM racers. 

 

this is why i posted what i posted, about what, if anything we have asked for from hoosier. 

My thoughts are if hoosier agreed to make an SM8 for us, with more life, we could all be happy. toyos compound isn't magic, its nearly 10 years old at this point. hoosier can make a competitor with more life. maybe not 20 or whatever heat cycles, but i'd settle for 10 or 12. i like the hoosier h20, but yes, i do like feeling like a hero in the rain and am willing to pay a bit for it. 

[Danica Davison]

Let's just switch to Open DOT 200 tread wear tire.  They work GREAT on the le chump cars and last forever. Then we could have some fun tire manufacturer battles

[LarryKing]

 

I'm curious about the statements about lack of trackside support for Toyo "in the east".   Here in the southeast, Appalachian Tire is at every SCCA event I've ever attended.  Sure, their trailer is painted with Hoosier branding, but they sell Toyo too. I ran Toyos on my IT car and never had any problems getting tires (even pre-shaved) at the track.

This.

 

 

I do not know the corporate structure of Hoosier/Continental...but would it be fair to say American made? 

Yaa, das Continental ist der Deutschland tire. Vich Axis tire do ve prefer?

 

 

whaling on the buckeye

???

[Ron Alan]

Haha...again, claimed no knowledge! Is /was Hoosier?

[tLinder]

I agree with most of these bullet points by Xavier. I'll be selfish, I just want SM on the same tire so i don't have to manage 9 sets of wheels.

Track-side support varies by event / region, but in general Hoosier's track services are more common.  (Although I prefer to arrive at the track not needing their services$.)

Contingency, Hoosier pays 12 tires for Super Tour ~$2200, 4 tires for majors ~$730.  NASA 19+ starters pays $1025

 

This year ends the Hoosier contract with SCCA as the Spec Tire.  Since being involved with NASA, I have seen more and more SCCA regular competitors come over and race with NASA and run on the Toyo RR tire.  I have had conversations with many of the drivers from the very front of the field, to mid pack all the way to back packers.  Those that have raced the Hoosier SM7 and the Toyo RR virtually all have the same feedback. 

·        The Toyo RR has 3-4 times more raceable cyles than the Hoosier.

·       There is no need to sticker up with Toyo RR’s

·       You must sticker up with Hoosiers if you want to be competitive

·       At most Super tour races the Front runners are going through two to three sets of tires

·       At most events NASA front runners ( even the SCCA crossovers) use one set or less

·       The Toyo Rain tire can be used for seasons

·       The Hoosier H20 is a one session tire

·       Ultimate lap time of the tires are within tenths, however the RR does not fall off like the Hoosier does after 5-7 laps

·       The Toyo RR can be stored for months with no issues. If a 1-2 session Hoosier sits a month, it is useless as a race tire

·       Tire Budget with Toyo RR will be 1/3 of what is being spent on Hoosiers

 

[Ron Alan]

 

Contingency, Hoosier pays 12 tires for Super Tour ~$2200, 4 tires for majors ~$730.  NASA 19+ starters pays $1025

To be a little more accurate...NASA/Toyo payout is for all regionals...no idea how many that is a year! Besides the big races, I do believe Hoosier pays 2 tires for 1st and 1 for 2nd at regionals? 

 

I would like to see both vendors offer something to all those who finish outside contingency...maybe random drawing? 

[Nick Soriano]

I love John's idea. Probably because I have been preaching it myself for a while now. The 200tw tires are incredible. They never fall off. They wear like iron. They don't require a crazy set up to make them stick. 

If we are committed to a race tire, the SM7 has to go. It will be the end of the SM class for the little guys. I have no problem keeping a hoosier around but lets tell them what we want for the SM8.  

 

After overhearing the cuban missle talk to the hoosier guys at Indy he had some really smart points. 

1. The tire wears too fast. Already known. They fall off too much. In session and after multiple heat cycles. Not saying it shouldn't fall off just slower. Give us 3-4 more competitive HCs. Make new rubber worth something but not everything. 

2. It's too much tire. We are tearing these cars up with that much grip. It's unnecessary. It's a spec class. Who cares if it handles perfect or not. As long as we all drive the same thing it doesn't matter if its too little grip. We all have to deal with the same thing. 

3. They require too much set up to get the most out of them. We already allowed the offset bushings upfront.... and then we actually thought about slotting the rears.... Come on. We were built off a showroom stock class. How far away from that are we trying to go. Ask for more or less sidewall (idk enough about tires to tell you which likes more camber.) so that we can get great handling cars without having to push the limits of adjust-ability on these cars. 

 

Have them build us a tire we want to race. We're still gonna buy them. Lets just be happy about sending them so much business. It doesn't make sense to sign a contract with a company that thinks were happy as can be when we all sit around and bitch behind closed doors. The SMAC should be able to tell hoosier what the community wants and hoosier should be able to build us a tire that we will enjoy for years. 

[loudes13]

The tires are different. Construction is different. Dimensions are different. The Hoosier is much wider, lighter, and faster.

What setup differences are there?

[FTodaro]

Let's just switch to Open DOT 200 tread wear tire.  They work GREAT on the le chump cars and last forever. Then we could have some fun tire manufacturer battles

don't you like getting the contingency? OR at least the chance at one. I think Hoosier has been a fantastic supporter of our class. They have my loyalty at this point.

 

Why is the SMAC silent on this, what is up guys?

 

As nick said above, we should be working with Hoosier to fine tune the tire, if they are willing. This has been discussed, not sure if there was any headway. If not then the discussion should be sign a one year renewal at this point with a year to develop the next gen tires. If nothing comes then shop the replacement.

 

IMO Hoosier should get first shot.

[Bench Racer]

Whaling on the buckeye.

 

???

 

Per MPR22, Contrary to what the lawn boy posted above you won't have to have multiple sets of shaved tires to go to each track.

[tynor]

don't you like getting the contingency? OR at least the chance at one. I think Hoosier has been a fantastic supporter of our class. They have my loyalty at this point.

 

 

Frankly I could care less.  In a field of 40-50 cars, how many really have a shot at any contingency money?   All this discussion of "what's best for the front runners" ignores that the vast majority of us racing in the class aren't at the pointy end.    Keep the costs low.   As Nick wrote above: it's a spec class.  We don't need the "fastest" tire.  Find or design a tire that lasts.

[ChrisA]

The tire mfg. has a right & duty to sell tires and generate a profit for their company. Otherwise, they have no incentive to produce tires for us. The SM on the side of the Hoosier means it is for Spec Miata. Kind-of special, huh    If they produce a tire that last forever, then don't expect them at the track. Or expect them to charge an arm & leg for tire this tire that "lasts," of which they sell far fewer of. I know many of you are saying "we don't care about lap times, we're all on the the same tire." But the fact is Hoosier is in competition with other manufacturers, if they produce a longer lasting tire, but it is slower than a competitors; you know, as racers we will want the faster tire.  I love Hoosiers' support at the track and they have been good to us as a series. What we need is for them to produce a tire that maintains a consistent high grip level at least a few sessions longer, perhaps doubles it's race-able life, which is not long. This would greatly help us smaller budgeted drivers to continue participating or to participate in more events; and not likely have a significant impact Hoosier's bottom line. If you have more drivers they can sell more tires. The Wet tire, well.., that needs to greatly increase it's life, I will not flip the $-bills for a one session tire, I'll just sit out the race. That's a loss to Hoosier, the SCCA and myself. 

 

I like the idea above, about a drawing for a tire or 2 for a racer[s] outside the contingency. Perhaps, limit the drawing to races with over a certain number of entries > 30+   . Would create a little fun & excitement after the race, as well as help someone out.

[davew]

Wild idea. With the recent popularity of random tech inspections, If you are randomly picked, you get a free tire for your inconvenience. Note that random picks are SUPPOSED to be decided based on finishing position, with that position determined before arriving at the track.

 

Dave

[LarryKing]

Whaling? Like with a harpoon? Capt. Ahab style?

Green Peace ain't gonna like that.

[Bench Racer]

Whaling, wailing, whatever.  

[Jim Drago]

. I know many of you are saying "we don't care about lap times, we're all on the the same tire." But the fact is Hoosier is in competition with other manufacturers, if they produce a longer lasting tire, but it is slower than a competitors; you know, as racers we will want the faster tire.

I disagree with that. Often I don't even know the second my lap time was, just base it in tenths compared to the others. I really would not mind being 1-2 seconds a lap slower with a tire that would not require me to put on stickers for every session that mattered
Jim

[Todd Lamb]

5 months ago, for those who missed it:  http://mazdaracers.c...ng-2019-update/

 

The wheels have been in motion for quite some time, and they don't have Toyo's mounted on them.